zagibu
Junior Member
Posts: 1,953
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Post by zagibu on Feb 15, 2024 12:45:06 GMT
Female super model action characters are just physically unbelievable. I don't have a problem with it if the game has abstract art or a fantasy setting, but it doesn't fit for the more realistic versions of Tomb Raider.
BUT: If you give your character huge boobs or a bubble butt, then you also must include jiggle physics, otherwise it breaks immersion. Do it right, or don't do it at all.
The Stellar Blade character is actually based on a 3d scan of the Korean model Shin Jae-eun.
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askew
Full Member
Posts: 6,804
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Post by askew on Feb 15, 2024 14:57:03 GMT
I found the greater draw distance in the new graphics helpful. I see you out there, Mr Bat. Pew-pew!
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Post by Duffking on Feb 15, 2024 15:59:23 GMT
Watched the gameplay trailer. In the trailer the re-vamped graphics look much brighter and weirdly more cartoon-like, whereas the originals looked pretty 'realistic' at the time. Which is odd given that several people here have said the new graphics make it too dark. It's the first game in particular because it used a different lighting model, so caves which were completely enclosed with no light sources were still quite bright in the first. In the remaster they've actually changed the geometry in new graphics mode to accomodate adding light sources - opening holes in ceilings etc. The sequels I think had "more proper" lighting so it's less different. |
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Ulythium
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Lily-livered
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Post by Ulythium on Feb 15, 2024 18:21:34 GMT
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askew
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Posts: 6,804
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Post by askew on Feb 15, 2024 19:47:29 GMT
I think I prefer tank controls - particularly in combat. I find myself running in circles, whereas being able to skip backwards while firing is pretty useful when enemies are bearing down on you.
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Post by simple on Feb 15, 2024 20:47:13 GMT
I don’t know why that redesign is so controversial, they’ve just stuck her reboot head on her original body. It looks fine.
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Post by Jambowayoh on Feb 15, 2024 21:30:31 GMT
I think it's because she doesn't look 16 years old and her tits aren't as big as her head. You know like a real woman.
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askew
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Posts: 6,804
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Post by askew on Feb 15, 2024 21:34:41 GMT
Oh piss. I nearly got to the end of a level then fluffed a jump and left Lara in a crumpled heap. Back to the start I go.
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loto
Junior Member
Posts: 1,044
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Post by loto on Feb 15, 2024 21:48:12 GMT
I got to the top of a series of jumps, went for a save and loaded my game back at the bottom instead. Bah
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Post by paulyboy81 on Feb 15, 2024 22:10:27 GMT
I got to the top of a series of jumps, went for a save and loaded my game back at the bottom instead. Bah Did this also, that page should really default to save not load. Also forgot to save for about 45 minutes and plummeted to my death. The air turned blue. It's so good. |
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Tuffty
Junior Member
Posts: 3,618
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Post by Tuffty on Feb 15, 2024 23:36:53 GMT
Can confirm, also loaded when I meant to have saved lol. Dunno why they did that, unless they thought players would want to load games after a bad attempt or something and so they made it the default.
One thing I'll point out, there are cases in the game like in the Lost Valley level where there are rivers with a strong current that can pull you away. In the original there's the sound of rushing water and also the surface of the water lets you know if that is rapid. In the shiny new graphics you hear the rapid water, but the surface is completely clear. Hope they manage to add something to it to make it visually distinct because otherwise some later levels from what I can recall will get pretty rough unless you can see it.
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Quasi
New Member
Posts: 162
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Post by Quasi on Feb 16, 2024 3:45:53 GMT
Assuming this is going to be her design in whatever the actual game ends up being (which they haven't actually ever confirmed afaik), it really does say it all about Crystal as a company that after reinventing the character and trying to make their own Lara with her own story and personality and even an updated and practical-but-still-cool version of the classic outfit, they're just going back to short shorts and dual pistols after Shadow didn't do as well the other games. And possibly even taking another crack at a game they already remade.
Can confirm, also loaded when I meant to have saved lol. Dunno why they did that, unless they thought players would want to load games after a bad attempt or something and so they made it the default. One thing I'll point out, there are cases in the game like in the Lost Valley level where there are rivers with a strong current that can pull you away. In the original there's the sound of rushing water and also the surface of the water lets you know if that is rapid. In the shiny new graphics you hear the rapid water, but the surface is completely clear. Hope they manage to add something to it to make it visually distinct because otherwise some later levels from what I can recall will get pretty rough unless you can see it. Yeah, I'm seeing a surprising(?) number of oversights and lack of quality-of-life changes. If I didn't grow up with these games I feel like I'd be lost in the woods. |
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Post by dangerousdave on Feb 16, 2024 8:26:08 GMT
I hope to start the first of these games on Sunday. My partner and I are going to share a controller, taking it in turns making the next round of drinks. She’s not played them for 20 years and it’s been a good 10 years since my last playthrough.
I still remember the weapon cheat code from the original game. I’ve been mashing in that code on every loading screen of almost every game I’ve played since the 90s. It’s almost like a finger exercise whilst you wait.
Edit - There’s no way of explaining that without it sounding rude.
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Post by Duffking on Feb 16, 2024 9:54:38 GMT
The issue with CD's games has never really been the Lara's design, that's for sure. It's just that having platforming basically be autopilot makes it hard for it to be the centerpiece of your game, as Shadow found out the hard way. Going hours between combat encounters should be my dream Tomb Raider, but it's not because the platforming is fucking boring. And that's why the rest of the games are rammed full of combat.
Even Anniversary, which is great, just feels like a very straightforward game.
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Tuffty
Junior Member
Posts: 3,618
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Post by Tuffty on Feb 16, 2024 10:22:37 GMT
I hope any future Tomb Raider game goes back to the classics and treats the environment traversal as the crux of the gameplay and not some inbetween you have to do to go from cutscene to cutscene. You gotta respect the environment cause death can be swift but if you learn your moveset and how it interacts with the world it gets pretty satisfying. There's still nothing else out there quite like it and modern TR/Uncharted is not it.
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Post by Bill in the rain on Feb 16, 2024 10:25:32 GMT
Anniversary was pretty fun when I played it last year. The traversal was great, and I liked a few of the small touches like being able to time button presses to move faster, and occasionally not getting a good grip and having to recover the hold. Though they probably could have used things like that a bit more.
That said, playing Sands of Time now and when you get into the flow you can whiz through the levels. Super fun, although I also like the slightly more deliberate approach of Anniversary.
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Post by richyroo on Feb 16, 2024 10:31:30 GMT
I finished the Colosseum level last night. I know the controls are dated, but the platforming is far more rewarding than anything being made by today's standards. Modern games, you can practically climb while blindfolded, it plays its-self. This remaster has made me appreciate older game design, modern games seem dumbed down by comparison. Other things I am also really enjoying: - No Map - No on screen navigation - No screen overlay (instinct mode) - No pointless collectables - Minimal HUD - No handholding / on screen prompts - No skill trees
When did modern games start to play themselves and treat gamers like idiots?! It actually feels like we have regressed somehow in this regard. I bought the Tomb Raider remaster collection for the nostalgia value, but instead I find I am enjoying replaying these immensely. |
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cubby
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doesn't get subtext
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Post by cubby on Feb 16, 2024 10:44:05 GMT
I might be wrong here but it feels like Assassin's Creed changed things in that regard, ever since that 3D traversal has been more of a case of move the stick that way and watch him go.
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Post by zisssou on Feb 16, 2024 10:47:42 GMT
I think it's down to that there was a huge push to sell physical copies back in the day. We're talking the days of word of mouth/magazines. A lot of people including myself would rent games, and if they were too easy, then you'd finish it quickly, and not buy it.
And with skill trees, they probably made the effort to pump more into slow progression of an evolving character throughout the game, than to go here's bastard hard levels.
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Post by Duffking on Feb 16, 2024 10:50:56 GMT
My trouble with a lot of modern 3D platforming in games like TR and Uncharted etc is that the distance Lara/Drake can jump is defined as "how far does the game need them to be able to jump at this particular moment".
In Uncharted for example, you can walk up to an edge and jumped off it with nothing for him to grab on the other side, and look at how far he gets. Then find another ledge to jump off which has something to grab on the other side, but is like 1m further than you were able to jump neutrally and marvel as suddenly his launch trajectory and velocity is doubled to let him make it easily. I get that you'd exert yourself more to make an actual reach like that, but from a gameplay perspective it's brainless because the game never demands that you learn how far your character can jump and what is/isn't possible. It's all just presented to you up front with big signage of "you can make this one" and "there's nothing to jump to here".
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Post by Duffking on Feb 16, 2024 10:54:55 GMT
Some of the modern hand holdy-ness I think is driven by gamer entitlement of feeling like every single game needs to be tailored to your specific tastes, and if a game doesn't appeal to you personally then that's somehow a problem of the game and then you get dragged online.
Nothing wrong with having options to customise the experience, but IMO it's somewhat worthless when the base experience you're adding options to is already designed around the lowest common denominator of "we got people who play 1 game a year in to playtest and they didn't realise you can climb a ladder". Taking away or adding highlights etc in Shadow's platforming was kind of dumb when you've already designed the entire game around the highlights being there and the platforming being completely automated, etc.
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mrpon
Junior Member
Posts: 3,737
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Post by mrpon on Feb 16, 2024 11:03:00 GMT
Don't forget the white paint on ledges!
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Post by Duffking on Feb 16, 2024 11:11:39 GMT
There's a big debate about that at the moment, with many arguing they're necessary. I agree to an extent, in the same way that in modern games environment clutter density is much higher so things you can actually interact with need highlighting. *But* if you START from a point of "we'll mark everything you can grab with this markup" AND also make it so basically those are the only places you can do to, you're already lost, because you're going to design environments that are completely reliant on those features being there to achieve anything. The correct thing to do is try to build your environments in a way that players can find their way through without the overbearing markup, and then add the option for it later. The markup is almost always needed, it just matters what form it takes. Even the original TR does stuff to draw your eye to where you need to go, it just does it in a way that fits its environment. A good example of a more modern game is how Portal doesn't have climbable ladders, but in various places they put a ladder up against a wall to make you look up and see what's at the top.
Modern TR and Uncharted are practically just giving up before they even try.
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Post by dangerousdave on Feb 16, 2024 12:26:34 GMT
The issue with CD's games has never really been the Lara's design, that's for sure. It's just that having platforming basically be autopilot makes it hard for it to be the centerpiece of your game, as Shadow found out the hard way. Going hours between combat encounters should be my dream Tomb Raider, but it's not because the platforming is fucking boring. And that's why the rest of the games are rammed full of combat. Even Anniversary, which is great, just feels like a very straightforward game. I keep saying here, but Jusant was the perfect Tomb Raider. It was all just climbing and exploring and it was ace. Throw in some undead monsters and you’re on to a classic. |
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Vortex
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is apparently a mangina.
Posts: 5,400
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Post by Vortex on Feb 16, 2024 12:34:40 GMT
Jusant was great. The whole sense of exploration was kind of what was lost in the TR reboots, although the latest one did try to improve that a bit by having more and slightly larger tombs to raid.
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Tuffty
Junior Member
Posts: 3,618
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Post by Tuffty on Feb 16, 2024 13:05:03 GMT
Theres popular examples of it in other games too. "Cut off their limbs" in Dead Space is a result of play testers constantly aiming for headshots. Portal has literal arrows pointing upwards in spots because people wouldnt look up. I dont necessarily mind the yellow paint, like whatever, it's a game no big deal. If you need something to distinguish an intractable object amongst your fancy hyper realistic graphics then go for it.
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Post by Bill in the rain on Feb 16, 2024 13:17:13 GMT
They kinda had to do the auto-jump-distance thing once the environments became much more complex. TR1 everything was boxes so all the distances were easily understandable. I dunno if it was the first, but Mirror's Edge was the one that did the 'white paint on edges' best, because it didn't actually make it more grab-able, it just guided your eyes as to where to go. And it was mainly red.
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Post by Duffking on Feb 16, 2024 14:07:15 GMT
Eh, you can have the track language for where to go without automating stuff though. Your mirror's edge example sort of shows that.
One of the quirks of early TR is the two-step rule, Lara doesn't jump when moving unless she's taken 2 steps. That's why there's a delay if you start running, then hit jump, but there isn't if you have been running for a bit and then press jump. I wouldn't have that exactly that way these days, but there's a concept there that's important but has been lost in modern games in this vein, which is that people don't accelerate to maximum speed in a fraction of a second. And on top of that, just the fact that you jump further when running than you do from a standstill.
In Uncharted if there's a jump you can make it doesn't matter if you run at it or just stand at the edge and jump, you make it because the game says you can. I don't see why it needs to be that way - keep the obvious marking of where to go if you want, but force me to take proper run ups for jumps that are further distances at least, and make me aim it properly instead of just invisibly forcing me over to where I need to go.
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Post by richyroo on Feb 16, 2024 14:25:04 GMT
Would certainly make the platforming more engaging that way. When I play Uncharted, I am half asleep during the platforming sections. In Tomb Raider I am very much alert!
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Post by damagedinc on Feb 17, 2024 23:21:12 GMT
You could taser guys in the dick till they caught on fire. That was amazing. I think another part of the appeal of Syphon Filter in comparison to MGS was it had the whole military complex, espionage, cinematic quality plus ludicrous plotting but without lots of codec / cut scenes. It was fairly economical in terms of story-telling, to its benefit. That said, I tried it recently and - surprise - it plays terribly, whereas MGS I think for various reasons still works well enough in terms of gameplay. .... |
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