wunty
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Post by wunty on May 28, 2024 9:17:14 GMT
Erm... Pass. It's actually been nearly 30 years since I played it so honestly don't know how much is the same. It REALLY gives me deja vu though (in the best possible way), and it feels right, if that makes sense. As far as I can tell, everything is the same layout wise and progression wise. They really have done a fucking tremendous job of giving you the game as it was 30 years ago, yet also the game as it would be now.
I'm aware constantly gushing about it but after having waited so long, I can't believe it's actually lived up to and probably surpassed my expectations.
Re: The gameplay loop. It's a funny one. One hand, yes, it feels horrendously out of date, but on the other, it feels horrendously out of date in the best possible way. We are now back at a time before constant objective pop-ups, nav markers and being guided by the hand. This is back to gaming when the developer didn't give a shit if you finished the game or not and if you wanted to, you had to sit down and figure out the damn thing yourself. Beautiful. This is what we need to go back to. This is why Dark Souls resonated so much when it came out. There's a large portion of gamers, I believe, that WANT this experience.
It's why I still think the Thief reboot is underrated. Sure, it took some misteps, no doubt, but the devs put in all the options so you could play the game like you used to play games. That's how I played it through. Every single assist off, hardest difficulty, the works, and I fecking loved it.
Talking of which. Nightdive. Oh boy, please do Thief 1 & 2. Imagine that.
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malek86
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Post by malek86 on May 28, 2024 16:30:53 GMT
As someone who never played the original (well, i did, but I was young and dumb and didn't get very far before getting lost), how much do you think they've changed/updated the core game. I played the demo of the new one, and so I know they've updated the visuals, controls, and quality of life stuff (and cyberspace). But are the underlying levels, challenges and philosophy basically the same? It seemed like they were from the demo. in which case it's interesting that a gameplay loop from 30 years ago still works so well and doesn't feel out of date. Biggest noticeable difference is the inventory now works like System Shock 2, which is probably a bit more modern than the original. Though it's also more restrictive as a result, and forces you to not carry as much stuff with you. Other big difference is the cyberspace sequences have been changed so there's less of import to do and now they feel more like Descent, which may or may not be to your liking (I prefer the old style, cyberspace does feel pointless and a bit fillerish in this remake). Everything else is basically the same: level layout, enemies, quests, etc. So yes, it's a 30 years old game that holds up even today, pretty much. Arguably, aside from the obtuse control system, you could probably still play the original just fine. And in fact, given I'm used to the control system, I can still play it just fine indeed.
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Post by Duffking on May 28, 2024 18:38:17 GMT
It's largely the same in many ways, yes. Broadly same mechanics etc but presented through modern controls and quality of life, and dashings of SS2 with stuff like the inventory. The maps in particular are very similar:
They're very mazelike by design and keep close to the original.
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Post by Duffking on May 28, 2024 18:43:46 GMT
BTW speaking of the original - I clocked this on Steam the other day and been meaning to check it out.
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Post by Bill in the rain on May 29, 2024 1:33:24 GMT
Yeah, my impression from the demo was that the core gameplay, levels, etc.. was basically identical to the original. I just didn't want to assume that the rest of the game was the same. I *really* must buy it and play it fully. It's just I spent too much money on concert tickets this month and I feel guilty...
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Post by quadfather on May 29, 2024 7:43:59 GMT
Update time, I know you're all wondering how I'm getting on. At the risk of this turning into my personal blog... Made it to the resistance room in the flight deck and, yeah, all my past nightmares came back at once. I knew what to expect and it still annihilated me a couple of times. Until that is I discovered that using a berserk patch in combination with the laser rapier means I can open shit up in seconds and feast on the goo inside. Cue one dead big boi. Same tactic was used a bit later on when the crazy AI bint threw a trap for me and lobbed a couple of cyborg enforcers in with some security bots and cyborg assassins. One patch and a few swings later and all that's left is chunks of meat and cables. Managed to upgrade my sparkbeam, and also have an assault rifle, so things are looking up. Talking of up, think that's where I'm heading next. The groves await me. Just need to figure out how to get there. Oh, found the soundtrack on bandcamp. Forgot it was on there. Definite purchase. I love it. Good shout with the berserk patch and the rapier. I'll definitely be doing that. Good luck in the groves. I'm sure they're a bastard. And good shout again about the soundtrack. I'll get that too. I'm in research at the minute. Fucking hoppers.
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Post by quadfather on May 29, 2024 7:46:56 GMT
Re the comparison to the original, agreed with the comments so far. It's bang on with the sense of place.
The recycler is new though isn't it? I don't remember that in the original.
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wunty
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Post by wunty on May 29, 2024 8:18:06 GMT
Yeah the hoppers are a pain. I've found something worse though, so that's... good. Currently pissing about in storage which is quite simply horrible, but awesome. Rocking the magnum now with a ton of ammo and just stumbled upon the grenade launcher.
I've only got the vaguest sense that I should be doing the groves next mind you. I'm not really sure what I'm meant to do. Exploring though, and upgrading, which is nice.
Definitely get the soundtrack, it's immense.
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Post by quadfather on May 29, 2024 8:28:51 GMT
Yeah the hoppers are a pain. I've found something worse though, so that's... good. Currently pissing about in storage which is quite simply horrible, but awesome. Rocking the magnum now with a ton of ammo and just stumbled upon the grenade launcher. I've only got the vaguest sense that I should be doing the groves next mind you. I'm not really sure what I'm meant to do. Exploring though, and upgrading, which is nice. Definitely get the soundtrack, it's immense. I can probably guess the monster. Is it this album - nightdivestudios.bandcamp.com/album/system-shock-original-video-game-soundtrack ? 25 tracks for less than a tenner us pretty decent
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wunty
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Post by wunty on May 29, 2024 8:47:26 GMT
Yeah that's it man. I'm loving it.
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Post by quadfather on May 29, 2024 8:47:46 GMT
Nice, I'll grab that in a bit then
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malek86
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Post by malek86 on May 29, 2024 22:34:07 GMT
Re the comparison to the original, agreed with the comments so far. It's bang on with the sense of place. The recycler is new though isn't it? I don't remember that in the original. Yeah the recycler is new. Guess they wanted to give people a reason to grab all they could, or maybe to make sure they wouldn't want to just carry around useful items all the time. Basically it's extra challenge. Tbf the coins were only useful for gun upgrades, but if you do have enough to splurge, some of those can be nice.
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wunty
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Post by wunty on May 31, 2024 11:37:33 GMT
Executive level time. Think I need to jettison the groves now because of all her weird shit going on in there. Using the Skorpion, it's a beast as I've got about 200 rounds of teflon ammo.
The music in Executive is, quite frankly, fucking immense.
12 hours in already. How did that happen.
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Post by quadfather on May 31, 2024 11:43:05 GMT
Executive level, that's the name! I'd forgotten what it was called. Isn't it totally nuts there?
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wunty
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Post by wunty on May 31, 2024 11:56:47 GMT
Having come from Storage where I was assaulted by security bots at the drop of a hat it's not too bad so far.
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Post by quadfather on May 31, 2024 11:58:55 GMT
Cool.
I'm really liking the fact I can't remember much about the levels and I keep getting mixed up with ss2. But that's good, as when I went to research for the first time, I'd completely forgotten about the initial ambush when the lift door opens.
Reminds me now of that scene in Dawn if the dead where they attack David Emge in the lift.
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askew
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Post by askew on May 31, 2024 11:59:13 GMT
I need to get on with this. I'd done my first cyberspace thing
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Post by quadfather on May 31, 2024 12:00:26 GMT
I need to as well. I've finally got 2 days off this weekend so it's getting played for sure
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wunty
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Post by wunty on May 31, 2024 12:08:41 GMT
Cool. I'm really liking the fact I can't remember much about the levels and I keep getting mixed up with ss2. But that's good, as when I went to research for the first time, I'd completely forgotten about the initial ambush when the lift door opens. Reminds me now of that scene in Dawn if the dead where they attack David Emge in the lift. Yeah me too I've forgotten so much. I only really remembered a few bits from the original. The medical level, bits of the flight deck (and meeting a particular enemy there), faffing about in the groves as well as what the cyberspace sequences looked like. Apart from that it's a bit of a mystery.
One thing I am glad about, which is one thing I wasn't keen on in the second, is the lack of gun maintenance. I always thought it was in 1 as well but unless they've removed it, it wasn't.
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Post by quadfather on May 31, 2024 12:14:29 GMT
Yeah same - I've got gaps in my memory all over the place.
And yeah, the gun maintenance in 2 is frustrating - unless I'm playing on easy, I always give in to the summon_obj cheat to get French Epstein devices and ammo half the time which I don't really like doing but fuck me on the harder difficulties, it's a bloody nightmare, especially when you get on the rickenbacker and into the Many.
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Post by quadfather on May 31, 2024 12:15:46 GMT
The second one is, however, one of the best videogames ever made and if anyone disagrees, they're just wrong. And THAT'S THAT.
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wunty
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Post by wunty on May 31, 2024 12:17:48 GMT
Yeah. If I remember correctly the very first time I played through 2 I got as far as the Many and the kind of nucelus bit with all the Rumblers and that was it. Couldn't get past it. No ammo, shite guns and bugger all health. So I gave up. Took me a year or so before I went back to it with a frresh save and finished it. Bloody hard. The security alarms were tough as well, and that's another thing I was surprised about in 1, that they don't set off an alarm and send enemies flocking to your location. I panicked when I heard the first "cheep cheep".
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Post by quadfather on May 31, 2024 13:16:26 GMT
Yeah. If I remember correctly the very first time I played through 2 I got as far as the Many and the kind of nucelus bit with all the Rumblers and that was it. Couldn't get past it. No ammo, shite guns and bugger all health. So I gave up. Took me a year or so before I went back to it with a frresh save and finished it. Bloody hard. The security alarms were tough as well, and that's another thing I was surprised about in 1, that they don't set off an alarm and send enemies flocking to your location. I panicked when I heard the first "cheep cheep". Yeah same here. I was stuck there with a fucking laser rapier or whatever the equivalent is - that weird organic spiky stabby thing, and fuck all ammo or health and bog all psi power. Had to start again on a lower difficulty level. Each run through I do now I just do the summon_obj thing now and again to get past the difficulty spikes. Could do with another run through actually. Maybe I could do that after the new remake of the first one. Or carry on with dragons dogma 2. Or that new cheap horror game I've bought. Or all the other fucking games I've either not started or haven't finished. I still panic at the cameras in this new remake of 1. I can't help it, it's built in now.
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wunty
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Post by wunty on May 31, 2024 13:17:06 GMT
What cheap horror game have you bought?
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Post by quadfather on May 31, 2024 13:19:43 GMT
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wunty
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Post by wunty on May 31, 2024 13:36:52 GMT
Awesome. I love indie horror. It's in such a good place right now. There's a lot of shit out there but some right cool little games as well. Sadly I'm limited to whatever appears on PS but today I have bagged myself The Glass Staircase (more Puppet Combo awesomeness) and Garten of Banban ep1 (still waiting on the rest of Poppy Playtime though). Reminds me, I need to get back to Alisa.
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Post by quadfather on May 31, 2024 14:20:29 GMT
Awesome. I love indie horror. It's in such a good place right now. There's a lot of shit out there but some right cool little games as well. Sadly I'm limited to whatever appears on PS but today I have bagged myself The Glass Staircase (more Puppet Combo awesomeness) and Garten of Banban ep1 (still waiting on the rest of Poppy Playtime though). Reminds me, I need to get back to Alisa. I posted a link in the horror games thread which lists about 12 indie horror games the other day - have a look
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wunty
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Post by wunty on May 31, 2024 14:24:52 GMT
Ha, I have most of them. The ones I don't have are only PC. Signalis in particular is awesome and Crow Country is on my wishlist.
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Post by quadfather on May 31, 2024 15:05:26 GMT
Yeah I can't decide about crow country. Like the idea but the visuals I'm struggling with a bit. I'll probably love it though.
All this is making me want to play house of the dead overkill on the wii with the lightguns again
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wunty
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Post by wunty on May 31, 2024 15:34:44 GMT
Same. Think that’s why I haven’t bought it yet.
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