dfawkes
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Post by dfawkes on Mar 29, 2024 20:54:13 GMT
I'm really not good enough at games like this to bother buying it. I'll still buy it as it's very pretty and I quite like the lore/story stuff so far, but I always have trouble with games where you have to plan attack sequences in advance - as soon as I make an opening I tend to get too aggressive.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2024 20:55:00 GMT
So for those of you who have played both, would you say that the combat in Rise of the Ronin is better than that of Stellar Blade? Yes.
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Ulythium
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Post by Ulythium on Mar 29, 2024 21:06:40 GMT
I feel like they're all going to say Ronin.
I get the same feeling!
Thanks for replying, @spookyxelectric. Better in what sense, might I ask - faster, more responsive, better animations?
I'm probably not going to get both games, but I'd like to get one of them.
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Post by harrypalmer on Mar 29, 2024 21:30:22 GMT
Fightin Cowboy was very positive. Said the combat was perfect, like if DMC and Sekiro had a child.
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Post by JuniorFE on Mar 29, 2024 21:47:56 GMT
Fightin Cowboy was very positive. Said the combat was perfect, like if DMC and Sekiro had a child. As much as I respect FightinCowboy, he also intensely disliked Rise of the Ronin for multiple reasons that I'm finding to be rather untrue even now (and that seem to be becoming even less true as I go on in some cases, such as the combat), so... Who knows , maybe this one will actually suck /j Not that I need to tell you fine folks that you should judge for yourselves first of course, especially in this case where there's a demo Edit: I should probably mention that I'm not watching his full playthrough of Rise, so he might have walked back some of that criticism without me knowing
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2024 21:53:14 GMT
I feel like they're all going to say Ronin.
I get the same feeling!
Thanks for replying, @spookyxelectric. Better in what sense, might I ask - faster, more responsive, better animations?
I'm probably not going to get both games, but I'd like to get one of them.
all of the above. Also a bit of that “deliberate” pacing you were hoping for here, but it’s actually intentional. Better opportunities for stealth, better punish on parry, on the fly weapon swapping. It’s too early to tell for Stellar Blade obviously, because I played about 20-30 minutes of demo, but Rise of the Ronin just feels better in its execution.
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Post by uiruki on Mar 29, 2024 22:02:54 GMT
Ronin's miles ahead, but it's almost an unfair comparison because it iterates on and works from things that Team Ninja have been working on for a long time. That said, TN didn't get there without feedback from users. If Shift Up are interested in making a good game - and there's probably a good one in there struggling to get out - they should get a survey out there. The more recent comparison is Lies of P: that ended up being really excellent after some tuning from a promising demo. That said, I think that P demo was a fair bit better than this and I liked the setting and ideas of this weird take on Pinocchio more than women in skin tight suits being mutilated for the camera. Comparing to Ronin, it's a combination of the animations just being much better all around, the move sets are not only more interesting but there's way, way more of them, and the fact the controls are just faster and more responsive. Or rather, the player perceives it that way because of how the animations work. I suspect the underlying code's just fine, but that first attack animation's so slow and the dodge is so linear in terms of how fast you move, that it seems like there's more latency in there. Going a bit more finely, your character movement isn't reduced massively just by locking onto an enemy, a full run isn't on clicking the stick, dodges actually dodge stuff (because a lot of enemies attack in a more linear and recognisable fashion, not even considering invincibility frames), the parry mechanic in Ronin is extremely clear as to whether you're early, on time or late, you're constantly doing high impact moves more often because of the Ki system (and much more opportunity to surprise enemies) and you've got a lot more toys to play with. In addition, the way it uses the camera to convey impact is both more restrained and clearer when you are successfully attacking and defending. As a result, even when fighting multiple enemies, it's not that hard to use both visuals and audio to work out what's going on in Ronin, while I found single enemy encounters in Stellar Blade to be unclear in terms of feedback and enemies seemed spongey when I was making the right choices in battle. The biggest frustration I found when playing against the boss enemies was that only one of the four or so different flashes that the enemies can throw at you actually clearly delineated when you do something (the blue blink alert), where as the single one on Ronin gives you it. Rise of the Ronin is an extremely well-tuned game in terms of combat, like you'd expect from a seasoned studio at this point, while Stellar Blade feels like an early demo from a studio going outside of their comfort zone. I think they can turn it around with some patches, but at this point my Ronin character in full samurai plate armour feels much more nimble and responsive with explosive bursts of speed than an apparently lithe and agile specialist soldier in a form-fitting bodysuit. The action doesn't match the character design.
edit: and while we're here and talking about a more direct inspiration (albeit from memory for a game I've not played for years), Nier Automata made the combat more interesting by having weaker enemies at the weak end for you to dispatch quickly, often using your little robot dude's guns to cover it. That alone made it feel like you're actually out there to kill stuff and get stuff done rather than the whole impression I got of your character actually being a bit shit and helpless in Stellar Blade. In addition, you again move much more dynamically with a very good dodge, and the way they could decouple weapons from the character meant that you got more varied and often longer ranged attacks with much more dramatic animations rather than square and triangle just giving different but very similar feeling slashes. But again - you're looking at a game by an experienced studio, well seasoned at making character action combat with some of the best dodging and evasion mechanics out there.
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Decks
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Post by Decks on Mar 29, 2024 22:12:15 GMT
Yeah I'd be a lot more enthusiastic for it if I wasn't playing Ronin at the minute which just feels immeasurably better to play.
That being said I do quite like the combat. The shit music and the dead eyed sex doll characters not so much. The tits on your mate at the start are just ludicrous.
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Decks
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Post by Decks on Mar 29, 2024 22:18:54 GMT
Just found the skin suit in the menu. Haha, fucking hell. The tits when you're running. Some absolute panty sniffers made this.
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Ulythium
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Post by Ulythium on Mar 29, 2024 22:25:17 GMT
Wow - thanks, uiruki . Great post. How much time was there between the Lies of P demo and the full release? [Beavis] Heh. "Full release." [/Butt-Head] I'm just wondering whether Shift Up realistically has time to implement any changes in the month-and-counting before the game comes out in April. I haven't gone back for another session yet - got too caught up in my DD2 adventures! - but I'll play some more Stellar Blade before I call it a night. I only got as far as the "trap" in my first run.
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Post by uiruki on Mar 29, 2024 22:37:09 GMT
It was a little over three months from the first demo to release for Lies of P, and of course they kept patching after release. For the first Nioh it was nearly 10 months between the alpha demo to the full release and that had some fairly major issues initially that ended up getting fixed.
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Bongo Heracles
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Post by Bongo Heracles on Mar 29, 2024 22:57:38 GMT
Hrmmmm…. I think this kinda sucks, tbh. You feel on the world, rather than in it, skating over the top of everything, occasionally not grabbing the thing you’re supposed to or eagerly mounting a ledge you aren’t and hurling yourself to your doom. The general world controls really aren’t good enough for the amount of platforming it wants you to do.
I’m sure you’d get used to the combat but it seems a bit wooly. There’s not much heft to anything and it always feels like they are just going to armour through your combo.
It’s just a demo so it might get fixed up but it feels like they should have spent a bit less time being sex perverts and a bit more on fixing the very obvious jank. Absolutely no way is this day one but it could be ok with a lot more time in the oven.
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Post by JuniorFE on Mar 29, 2024 23:28:26 GMT
So the Eurogamer subheader will be "Not-so-Stellar Blade" I'm guessing?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2024 23:30:06 GMT
teehee that was the title of the email I sent to myself to upload those screencaps.
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sport✅
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notice me senpai
I want to claim my tits
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Post by sport✅ on Mar 29, 2024 23:32:02 GMT
Finally, a female protagonist I can get behind.
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Post by JuniorFE on Mar 29, 2024 23:44:27 GMT
Finally, a female protagonist I can get behind. You haven't played the Nier or Bayonetta games I take it /j
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Post by Vandelay on Mar 29, 2024 23:48:18 GMT
Not playing Rise of Ronin, so perhaps don't dislike this as much as some, but it definitely doesn't feel right.
Getting the timing down for the block constantly feels off, with you needing to hit the button almost half a second earlier than you would expect to. Same goes for the dodge. I've just got the easier perfect parry skill and it feels better, but now I'm just left with the realisation that parrying is kind of tedious in this game. Far from the satisfying weighty parry mechanics of Lies of P, that I recently just played through. Having to parry even basic enemies three or four times to achieve anything feels incredibly drawn out. Enemies have too many hit points as well, making your character feel really weak.
Disappointing, as it feels like there could be a good game in here. Not a fantastic one, but with some tuning it would certainly warrant a play through. I'll see what reviews are like, but it feels like maybe a £30 or so purchase (or wait for it to pop up as a PS Plus game)
Sounds like maybe I should pay more attention to Rise of Ronin though.
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Post by mothercruncher on Mar 30, 2024 0:05:52 GMT
How are the butt cheeks?
You can review each separately if you like.
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dfawkes
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Post by dfawkes on Mar 30, 2024 0:14:55 GMT
I finally beat the boss, despite my absence of skill. Vandelay is spot on, parry and dodge need to be pressed earlier than you expect - I even saw the developer on Twitter blame this "lag" on not using your TVs Game Mode, but I reckon that's nonsense and it's just built around anticipating your next move.
Basically actually remembering to block and not commit too much when attacking was enough to get me through, and I did have fun throwing myself at the same enemy repeatedly in a way I'd usually get bored with. There's definitely a core of goodness in there, I just feel like the combat needs a little tweaking.
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Ulythium
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Post by Ulythium on Mar 30, 2024 0:38:47 GMT
Having finished the demo (turns out I was closer to the end after my first session than I'd realised), I'm still feeling positive about the game overall; however, with the hype factor having died down since this afternoon, I'm less enthused than I was originally. Pros: - Combo potential seems strong, speaking as someone who's not great at that in DMC et al; - The controls, while not remappable, are intuitive and well thought-out; - The English voice acting is better than I'd anticipated; - Combat generally feels good, although I do have some reservations (see below). Meh: - The music is nice, but I'm wondering if it's just a bit too Nier; - In fact, that goes for much of the game - I know imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, but come on.
Cons:
- Really not a fan of the water droplets on the camera when it's raining.
- Ditto for the platforming/traversal sections - yes, DMC had them, and I didn't like those either. - I may be imagining it, but there does seem to be a slight delay when pressing the attack buttons. - The dreaded 'RPG elements' come into play with the damage-sponge enemies.
I'll play through it again over the long weekend. Man, I wish Ronin had a demo so I could compare/contrast!
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Tuffty
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Post by Tuffty on Mar 30, 2024 7:49:23 GMT
Holy shit the music on both boss fights are really bad
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Bongo Heracles
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Post by Bongo Heracles on Mar 30, 2024 9:00:21 GMT
I played boss battle mode for a bit and do take some of it back, that was actually pretty fun. I would definitely give it a go after you finish the demo proper.
You get a load of gear and skills to play around with and it feels much better than the demo character build. I do kind of get what it’s going for now and it flows quite well when you get into it.
That still probably won’t change how wank the traversal is, though.
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Tuffty
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Post by Tuffty on Mar 30, 2024 12:01:34 GMT
It was definitely my biggest takeaway from the demo. I guess the question is that was with a pretty much fully upgraded skill tree so how long will it take to get in full game to get to that level.
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Ulythium
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Post by Ulythium on Mar 30, 2024 12:06:27 GMT
I'll try the Boss Challenge mode this afternoon.
Is it like the second part of the Final Fantasy XVI demo, which skips ahead a few hours to a new level/boss fight with a bunch of extra abilities unlocked, or is it just the regular demo with the whole skill tree at your disposal?
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Tuffty
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Post by Tuffty on Mar 30, 2024 12:38:06 GMT
The former. New boss fight, upgraded tree. There is a new type of evade they don't show in the demo, when you see it flash purple hit back + O
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Ulythium
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Post by Ulythium on Mar 30, 2024 19:57:39 GMT
I played the Boss Challenge mode - which, I won't lie, took multiple attempts to beat! - and now I feel more conflicted than ever. I still think the combat could be fantastic... ... But only if they make some tweaks. I'm not a fan of having the special skills on L1 + face buttons - I much prefer to keep block/parry as its own thing. The time between certain animations (such as getting up after being knocked down, and attacking again after performing a special move) is too long for my liking. It lacks fluidity. The jump and dodge need to be beefed up a bit. As thing stand, they're kind of wimpy. If they really want to achieve the 'Sekiro + Nier' hybrid that IGN and FightinCowboy have mentioned, combat as a whole needs to be sped up quite considerably. Just my $0.02, of course.
Here's hoping Shift Up actually intend to keep working to improve the game between now and launch, and this isn't just a, "Here's what you're getting - like it or lump it" type of demo.
If they leave the gameplay as-is, and devote the next four weeks to adding more fanservice, I shan't be impressed!
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Ulythium
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Post by Ulythium on Mar 30, 2024 21:19:35 GMT
Other gripes:
Automatically locking on to the nearest enemy (within reason) when the previously-targeted enemy dies is a pretty standard feature in melee action games, but I don't think there's an option for it here.
Unskippable cutscenes can get in the sea as far as I'm concerned.
Ranged combat doesn't feel great, for a variety of reasons - it breaks your lock-on, there's no hip-fire option insofar as I can tell, and it's ammo-based (so when you're out of bullets, your gun is useless). Both Nier games did this far better.
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Bongo Heracles
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Post by Bongo Heracles on Mar 30, 2024 21:59:34 GMT
You can skip cut scenes by holding O
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Ulythium
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Post by Ulythium on Mar 30, 2024 22:03:34 GMT
I don't think that works in the prologue, unless I'm being even more dense than usual.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2024 22:19:44 GMT
Is it taking anyone else ridiculously long to get to the main menu, or is it my PS5? Once the game is going, it’s seamless, but it feels like I’m waiting on a black screen for like 3 minutes before I get to the menu.
Demo boss was pretty easy. Boss Challenge stepped it up a bit, but the trick was to be aggressive and to interrupt his attacks with your abilities.
Game feels a lot better in balanced mode than resolution mode, and it doesn’t seem to take much of a visual hit. That’s probably how I’ll play the full game.
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