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Post by Danno on May 8, 2022 20:48:55 GMT
Just giving this thread a quick bump in honour of a superb try: Racing v Sale had two beauts as well. Check the highlights for Teddy Thomas and Finn Russell with a ridiculous score each Arundell should get a call up to prevent a poach asap, I think he qualifies for Scotland and Wales as well as England, and they're the fucking worst for handing out caps to 20 year olds to poach 'em first |
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Ulythium
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Post by Ulythium on May 9, 2022 10:56:29 GMT
The Teddy Thomas try was indeed a piece of magic, although I'm not 100% sure he remained in touch.
Totally agree re Arundell, although Jones will probably cap him once and then never look at him again (and he'll probably be expected to play scrum-half, to boot!). The kid's a special talent.
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Post by Danno on Jun 19, 2022 15:39:39 GMT
This is fucking embarrassing
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askew
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Post by askew on Jun 19, 2022 16:10:24 GMT
I'm going to have to see this backheeled conversion...
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Ulythium
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Post by Ulythium on Jun 19, 2022 16:23:25 GMT
Jones out.
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Ulythium
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Post by Ulythium on Jun 19, 2022 16:25:41 GMT
I'm going to have to see this backheeled conversion...
Lousy quality, but here ya go:
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Post by Danno on Jun 19, 2022 16:29:57 GMT
Truly pathetic from England, really fun to watch otherwise.
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Ulythium
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Post by Ulythium on Jun 19, 2022 16:31:55 GMT
I didn't see it, but from what I've read (plus the scoreline), it's hard to disagree with Flatman's comments in the clip above.
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zephro
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Post by zephro on Jun 19, 2022 18:58:50 GMT
Just watched it as I was out during the actual game. There's nothing I like better than watching England get shamed by the Baa Baas. Bonus points if an ex England player dropped by Eddie Jones blatantly takes the piss during the game.
My favourite of the type is Finn Russell fucking them up for the second time that year and everyone just handing the ball to Chris Ashton as revenge for being dropped.
Genuinely if a club ever wanted to run a backline of Finn Russell, Chris Ashton and Semi Radrada...
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Ulythium
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Post by Ulythium on Jun 19, 2022 19:02:07 GMT
Oh, god - watching that reminded me of the whole Elliot-Daly-at-fullback debacle.
He's no more an international 15 than my grandmother, and she's been dead for 20 years.
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Post by Danno on Jun 19, 2022 19:07:08 GMT
Oh, god - watching that reminded me of the whole Elliot-Daly-at-fullback debacle. He's no more an international 15 than my grandmother, and she's been dead for 20 years. See also: Mike Brown in the 11 shirt in that game. We persevered with Daly dropping 75% of all kicks at FB for three years when he'd already shown he was a class winger, despite his smelly club playing him at 13. It wasn't as if he offered that much coming into the line in attack as a counterpoint to his dodgy defence either. #Jonesout |
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zephro
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Post by zephro on Jun 19, 2022 19:37:40 GMT
Keep Jones, I wanna go 3 years with the Calcutta Cup.
But yeah what's with England and the Premiership not producing many Fullbacks to pick from?
In other news:
- I enjoyed the all Saffa URC final after the bulls fucked up Johnny Sexton's season, I've gotten sick of watching Leinster romp to victory in the Pro14/URC.
- Ditto O'Gara's La Rochelle doing the same.
- Danny Wilson got fired as Glasgow coach. I have no idea who we'll replace him with. Usually its an internal hire who it's too early for (fair play that worked well with Townsend and Blair), a Kiwi (Rennie, Cotter etc) or someone who just lost out at a Premiership/Welsh club (Cockerill after Glasgow nilled Leicester comes to mind).
Kind wish they'd find a French coach of a South African maybe. They're on the up these days.
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Ulythium
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Post by Ulythium on Jun 19, 2022 19:44:00 GMT
Keep Jones, I wanna go 3 years with the Calcutta Cup. But yeah what's with England and the Premiership not producing many Fullbacks to pick from?I'd love to get to the bottom of this little mystery myself!
As a Wasps fan, I spent a significant amount of time last season wondering why Jacob Umaga kept getting picked at 15, and I never did come up with an answer (at least, not a good one). |
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zephro
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Post by zephro on Jun 19, 2022 19:51:34 GMT
Like the league doesn't always prioritise flowing attacking rugby I get that, but Quins and Bristol are using Huw Jones (Scotland) and Piutau (Kiwi) respectively. Even then Jones is a 13 really and we'd never start him over Hogg. Exeter won with Hogg, when Saracens were in their pomp they had Liam Williams there. Baffling.
It's the opposite of Scotland's scrum-half thing, where we overproduce the wee fuckers.
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Post by Danno on Jun 19, 2022 19:57:05 GMT
Compared to 9 (until recently at least) and 12*, we've been alright at FB (Furbank, Malins, Mallinder, Goode), we just haven't picked them and stubbornly retained Daly.
*This has been a problem position since what, 2004? Manu is perma crocked (and is a 13 anyway), I don't rate Fazlet anywhere near as highly as the pundits do, and never have, Redpath got Scotlanded, Jonny Williams had a cancer diagnosis/treatment and then got Wales'd on his return.
Dan Kelly at Leicester is looking very promising, seems to have a bit of an all court game
Re Quins, Tyrone Green is the #1 choice, but his form nosedived at the start of the year and he only recently started to get back into his groove. Jones has done well for us there in Green's absence
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zephro
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Post by zephro on Jun 19, 2022 20:17:27 GMT
Redpath is Scottish, he was at risk of being Englanded due to the Premiership rules on England Qualified players.
Furbank doesn't seem that impressive, though this is possibly my stubborn first impression that he's an Edwardian colonial governor doing rugby at the weekends.
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Ulythium
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Post by Ulythium on Jun 19, 2022 20:20:01 GMT
I know that trying to decipher Eddie Jones' reasoning is like attempting to read a can of Alphabetti Spaghetti, but I truly don't know what he was doing with Elliot Daly at fullback.
Mike Brown copped a lot of flak from armchair pundits during the first couple of years of EJ's tenure, but he was undroppable during that time despite being far from his best; Brown then started to play really well again, and Jones immediately dropped him, first for Anthony Watson and then for Daly.
It became immediately apparent that Daly - solid winger/centre though he was - couldn't hack it at 15, but Jones just octupled down.
He even went so far as to put Brown on the wing for a while, to babysit Daly and do all the things Daly couldn't (which amounted to a lot, let's be honest). Then Brown was permanently exiled from the international scene, and Daly carried on at fullback until the last World Cup!
Sheer, unbridled lunacy... much like everything else EJ has done since his honeymoon period ended, and we all became aware that the emperor was, in fact, stark-bollock naked.
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Post by Danno on Jun 19, 2022 20:25:09 GMT
Furbank is a good player, but yes, probably a bit out of his depth at international level. My point that he is better than Daly at 15 remains valid! Redpath was very nearly English. Played for the U20s and was picked in training squads before being capped by Scotland. Ulythium Watson doesn't play FB |
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zephro
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Post by zephro on Jun 19, 2022 20:33:50 GMT
Yeah but he's Bryan Redpath's kid, it'd be like Adam Hastings playing for England.
Daly at least had a classy kick on him. I never really rated Brown either. I may be looking for other things in a fullback though. They need to lead your counter attack, be some amount of play maker and have an excellent kicking game. I know they also have important defensive duties but most my favourite fullbacks aren't.
Watson has definitely started at fullback under Jones.
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Ulythium
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Post by Ulythium on Jun 19, 2022 20:35:25 GMT
DannoI'm almost certain he deputised for Brown in... I want to say 2018? Then he suffered a nasty ankle injury and Daly was given the 15 shirt. Didn't Watson give away a penalty try while playing at fullback during the 6N that year? Against France, I believe? Or all the above was some kind of fever dream. I dunno!
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zephro
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Post by zephro on Jun 19, 2022 20:41:57 GMT
Pretty sure Watson played Fullback for the Lions last year (though substituting on for Hogg or Williams).
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Ulythium
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Post by Ulythium on Jun 19, 2022 20:46:32 GMT
Josh Lewsey was my favourite fullback - rock-solid in defence and a constant threat in attack, to boot. I can't for the life of me remember what his kicking game was like, though.
As discussed earlier in this thread, Arundell looks like a star in the making at 15; then again, once EJ has got inside his head, he'll probably be a shell of his current self.
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Post by Danno on Jun 19, 2022 20:48:06 GMT
"Watson at FB?? He doesn't even play there for Bath!!" is a bit of a running joke on a couple of rugby forums from the Daly years  Brown was a weird one. Such a team player in a meta sense, great defensively in terms of reading what was happening a phase or 2 ahead, but in attack he had absolute tunnel vision. ESPN should run the numbers on how many tries went begging because he didn't look to one side and throw the final pass. |
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Ulythium
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Post by Ulythium on Jun 19, 2022 20:48:58 GMT
Ahhhhhhh, okay. I'm with you!
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zephro
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Post by zephro on Jun 19, 2022 20:52:48 GMT
Showing my age but Gavin Hastings, Andy Irving, Stuart Hogg, Serge Blanco, Israel Dagg (OK literally any All Blacks full back), Liam Williams, I hate him but Rob Kearney. Full backs should just have some fucking flair about them. Even if statistically a team playing defensively solid fullback is "better" there's no romance.
Arundell looks like he could play like that, but for some reason I think England will beat it out of him. (he should have signed for Wales or Scotland though ¬_¬ )
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Post by Danno on Jun 19, 2022 20:57:55 GMT
Yeah but he's Bryan Redpath's kid, it'd be like Adam Hastings playing for England. Daly at least had a classy kick on him. I never really rated Brown either. I may be looking for other things in a fullback though. They need to lead your counter attack, be some amount of play maker and have an excellent kicking game. I know they also have important defensive duties but most my favourite fullbacks aren't. Watson has definitely started at fullback under Jones. re: Redpath, I'm just incredibly bitter at the overall IC situation down here. I think Daly being left footed had a lot to do with his vicegrip on 15, but he was still better off on the wing, despite an ignominious start there (red card within 3mins vs South Africa in his first start in the position, but went on to be, basically, a fantastic winger) Keep your fucking dirty poaching hands off of Arundell! |
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zephro
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Post by zephro on Jun 19, 2022 21:07:05 GMT
Well I'm very worried about inside centre as Redpath seems to be permanently fucking injured. He's going to turn into our Tuilagi, the plan is wait for him to be fit.
On the poaching front I feel Eddie Jones has been using his "trainees" he names in every 6N squad to irritate the other home nations. Happened with Gary Graham (OK no big loss) and Vellacot. He seems to just name dual qualified players to give other coaches the jitters.
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Post by Danno on Jun 19, 2022 21:13:21 GMT
He never caps them though. For all the air he wastes about not messing young players around or pumping them up, he sure acts differently.
You can still nick Dingwall
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Post by grey_matters on Jun 19, 2022 22:44:40 GMT
Showing my age but Gavin Hastings, Andy Irving, Stuart Hogg, Serge Blanco, Israel Dagg (OK literally any All Blacks full back), Liam Williams, I hate him but Rob Kearney. Full backs should just have some fucking flair about them. Even if statistically a team playing defensively solid fullback is "better" there's no romance. Arundell looks like he could play like that, but for some reason I think England will beat it out of him. (he should have signed for Wales or Scotland though ¬_¬ ) Yeah, I don't think Kearney is as good as the rest of that list but that Lions test against SA was probably the best fullback performance I've ever seen, so I guess that's a good multiplier. Mildly surprised at the hate though, he always seemed like a bland quasi-moron to me (still does). |
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zephro
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Post by zephro on Jun 19, 2022 23:11:47 GMT
Yeah not sure why I said Kearney, I must have some vestigial memory of him humiliating Scotland somehow like Liam Williams. I do hate him though probably for that and every time he does commentary for something he just gives all Scottish players a slagging for no obvious reason.
Like when England humiliated Scotland it was usually the forwards doing all the work there, we've got bad habits of doing fine against Ireland for 60 minutes and then some freak try streaking through our defence and ruining my day. England normally just fuck us early on, or lose.
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