malek86
Junior Member
Pomegranate Deseeder
Posts: 3,266
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Post by malek86 on Sept 28, 2024 9:19:48 GMT
At what point would anymore cache become redundant? I mean, will games really benefit from 192MB? Maybe they would, but if the only real problem with the 7950X3D was that one CCD had access to the big cache and the other didn't, it would be interesting to see how it compares to, say, an X3D with 48MB on each CCD. |
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Post by Chopsen on Sept 28, 2024 9:20:03 GMT
Oh and if you really want to go down the RGB bling route, make sure your stuff is compatible with openrgb.org/. Proprietary RGB software is universally awful. |
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Derblington
Junior Member
Did you know I have a girlfriend
Posts: 2,143
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Post by Derblington on Sept 28, 2024 9:30:15 GMT
Intel CPU wouldn't be my first choice given that intel's flagship range have a high failure rate, bugs, and awful power consumption. If I’d built my pc from earlier in the year just a month or so later I would have gone with AMD too, for peace of mind. |
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Post by Chopsen on Sept 28, 2024 9:32:32 GMT
I'm not sure that's fair, the frame generation is one of the biggest innovations in GPU technology for quite a while. That's what I meant by fancy pants drivers.
Yes I know it leverages the simplified but massive parallel processing that's inherent in the GPU design, but it's dependent on sophisticated software to achieve that affect.
While Nvidia's offering has been out a while, AMD have come along leaps and bounds with AFMF which is their implementation of that and Digital Foundry were very impressed with it, but it's an entirely a software side development. The hardware line-up supporting it hasn't changed.
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Post by Chopsen on Sept 28, 2024 9:33:54 GMT
Intel CPU wouldn't be my first choice given that intel's flagship range have a high failure rate, bugs, and awful power consumption. If I’d built my pc from earlier in the year just a month or so later I would have gone with AMD too, for peace of mind. Ditto.
I've got a 13k which *seems* to be fine. It's come in for some heavy use and still no issues. So far.
/touches wood
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Post by Vandelay on Sept 28, 2024 9:54:19 GMT
Intel CPU wouldn't be my first choice given that intel's flagship range have a high failure rate, bugs, and awful power consumption. Liquid cooling is a popular option. I have a corsair AIO. If I had my time again, I'd go for a noctua and stick with aircooling. I was hoping the AIO would give quieter cooling. It'd actually quite loud. Also have a Corsair AIO (H100i something or other). I like it, but a good air cooler would be just as good and be a bit cheaper. If you go all in on water-cooling and get one of those build your own kits then the results can be fantastic, but AIOs compared to air coolers are pretty much on par. Unless you like the aesthetics of the AIOs, then just get an air cooler and save a few quid (and to be fair I do like the cleaner look over having hulking great big cooler on top of the CPU). Besides that, AMD does sounds like the preferred choice again. Quick glance and I think the 5700x3d is about the same price and should be around the same performance, maybe slightly better. |
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Post by Phattso on Sept 28, 2024 10:11:08 GMT
Isn't one of the primary benefits of the AIO units the dramatic drop in fan noise when the CPU gets loaded? It's not all about the temps for me, I chuffing *hate* it when CPU coolers spin up and drown everything else out.
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Post by dfunked on Sept 28, 2024 10:22:35 GMT
I tried a couple of well reviewed AIO coolers yonks ago and ended up sending them back as I found them noisier and no more efficient than my trusty NH-D15. Things have probably improved a fair bit since then, though.
Having said that the noise had been driving me a bit nuts with my 5900x even with good old coffee and cream. I just couldn't find a fan curve that kept things cool AND quiet. The 5700X3D that I downgraded to seems like a much better fit so far.
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Post by Chopsen on Sept 28, 2024 10:34:15 GMT
Isn't one of the primary benefits of the AIO units the dramatic drop in fan noise when the CPU gets loaded? It's not all about the temps for me, I chuffing *hate* it when CPU coolers spin up and drown everything else out. My AIO is a noisy bastard under load. It's a bit better allowing the mobo to control the fans directly, but even the pump is quite noisy on its own. Also if the CPU is under load, the GPU probably is anyway and that is even worse. I've got a couple of PCs with noctua air coolers. Admittedly their both AMDs and therefore generate less heat anyway, but they are properly inaudible under load at reasonable seating position. Basically AMD + air cooling best solution for CPU in terms of cost, noise, power draw, stability. imo. |
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Post by Fake_Blood on Sept 28, 2024 10:39:26 GMT
People with AiO’s often link fan speed to the cpu temp, when they should link it to the water loop temp. With cpu temp the fans will ramp up and down by simply opening a program, if you link it to the loop temp you get a more stable ramp up and you actually make use of the massive heatsink. Disadvantage if you can call it that is that the fans will keep running at high speed after you’re done gaming for a couple minutes.
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Post by Phattso on Sept 28, 2024 10:52:59 GMT
Isn't one of the primary benefits of the AIO units the dramatic drop in fan noise when the CPU gets loaded? It's not all about the temps for me, I chuffing *hate* it when CPU coolers spin up and drown everything else out. My AIO is a noisy bastard under load. It's a bit better allowing the mobo to control the fans directly, but even the pump is quite noisy on its own. Also if the CPU is under load, the GPU probably is anyway and that is even worse. I've got a couple of PCs with noctua air coolers. Admittedly their both AMDs and therefore generate less heat anyway, but they are properly inaudible under load at reasonable seating position. Basically AMD + air cooling best solution for CPU in terms of cost, noise, power draw, stability. imo. Interesting, and disappointing! I've never had an AIO (they weren't a thing last time I did a build) but it was my assumption that two or three fans cooling the liquid couldn't possibly be louder than the last chonky-boi CPU cooler I used. Granted that was on an Intel CPU, but it easily outdid the GPU cooling noise under load. Given that Intel are spinning the drain I imagine my next build will be AMD for the CPU anyway, for the first time since the early noughties. Just need NVidia to pull their finger out and actually release the 5000 series GPUs. |
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Frog
Full Member
Posts: 7,304
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Post by Frog on Sept 28, 2024 11:15:07 GMT
Yeah the AIO cookers aren't all that, I will be going with a noctua again next time as they are brilliant coolers.
Not one for glass panelled cases though 😂
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crashV👀d👀
Junior Member
not just a game anymore...
Posts: 3,892
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Post by crashV👀d👀 on Sept 28, 2024 11:20:05 GMT
People with AiO’s often link fan speed to the cpu temp, when they should link it to the water loop temp. With cpu temp the fans will ramp up and down by simply opening a program, if you link it to the loop temp you get a more stable ramp up and you actually make use of the massive heatsink. Disadvantage if you can call it that is that the fans will keep running at high speed after you’re done gaming for a couple minutes. this. It took a few sessions of adjusting settings when I put my aio in along with a few other case fans before I hit on linking it to the loop temp. It's a much smoother ramp like FB said. Iy annoyed the shit out of me just opening chrome and suddenly the fan would BRRRRR then stop ... |
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crashV👀d👀
Junior Member
not just a game anymore...
Posts: 3,892
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Post by crashV👀d👀 on Sept 28, 2024 11:21:16 GMT
I would echo the sentiment of some others in here and go AMD. Better power draw and much easier to keep cool.
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Post by Fake_Blood on Sept 28, 2024 11:22:16 GMT
It doesn’t help that every AiO software I’ve seen defaults to linking fan speed to cpu temp. You end up with the fans at 100%, trying to cool down a radiator that sits at 35°C with 21°C air for instance.
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Post by Chopsen on Sept 28, 2024 12:59:42 GMT
Interesting, and disappointing! I've never had an AIO (they weren't a thing last time I did a build) but it was my assumption that two or three fans cooling the liquid couldn't possibly be louder than the last chonky-boi CPU cooler I used. Granted that was on an Intel CPU, but it easily outdid the GPU cooling noise under load. Given that Intel are spinning the drain I imagine my next build will be AMD for the CPU anyway, for the first time since the early noughties. Just need NVidia to pull their finger out and actually release the 5000 series GPUs.
I think a lot of the "watercooling is quieter" thinking stems from early adopters when water-cooling started taking off, when air-cooling was a lot noisier that it can be today. People have got used to having *huge* heatsinks and fans on top of their CPUs because we've got used to massive cases etc, so you can get really efficient air-cooling now. Also you have the edge cases case of people who build custom built entirely water cooled systems with massive radiators which can be very quiet, but those people are mental and don't apply to what people people are going to be doing with AIOs.
In terms of linking fan speeds to CPU temps vs coolant temps. I've played around with both and what I've found is that the heat transfer from CPU -> heatsink -> coolant is a lot slower than the lag time with heat generation within the CPU itself from being put under load. Let alone the time it takes for CPU -> heatsink -> coolant -> radiator to achieve anything. Therefore, the main effect you see when you get CPU load is thermal throttling because the AIO can't work fast enough, and it all just balances out in the long term as things reach their with their own thermal equilibrium. I.e. fans spinning up to max under CPU loads/temps don't matter as thermal throttling at the CPU means the heat is never transferred to the radiator fast enough to enable the CPU to continue to work at that load. If you tie the fans to coolant temp, same effect applies, but further up the chain. I think the over-arching effect is that the radiator just needs enough airflow to assist it with dissipating heat to the environment and heat differential needs to be maintained and descent in CPU -> heatsink -> coolant -> radiator order, which is mainly due to much higher surface area of the radiator used for an AIO than any short burst of mechanical activity by the pump or fan. It just evens out over the long term, and it's not especially useful for short intense burst of CPU activity either way.
But what do I know....
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crashV👀d👀
Junior Member
not just a game anymore...
Posts: 3,892
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Post by crashV👀d👀 on Sept 28, 2024 13:05:08 GMT
I'll take less intermittent noise with a slow gradually build and wind down than the BRRR stop BRRR stop
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Post by Chopsen on Sept 28, 2024 13:12:41 GMT
Oh absolutely. I just set mine to run at a tolerable constant and let thermodynamics and thermal themrottling to care of the rest.
The constant up and down brrring doesn't achieve anything anyway, was my point.
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Blue_Mike
Full Member
Meet Hanako At Embers
Posts: 5,408
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Post by Blue_Mike on Sept 28, 2024 13:43:08 GMT
I've got a NZXT Kraken AIO and it's been great as far as temps and noise go. It was a replacement for a BeQuiet air cooler, which was silent but inadequate on the cooling side. Kraken got my CPU temp down by 10 degrees.
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Post by Fake_Blood on Sept 28, 2024 13:43:08 GMT
I've got my pump speed linked to the cpu temp, and the fans to the water temp, I figured any spikes in heat will get taken care of by the pump.
That said, my system is build mainly to keep my 4090 cool, so using argus monitor my radiator fans also speed up whenever the GPU gets hot, as I'm using the radiator as an exhaust.
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Post by brokenkey on Sept 28, 2024 17:59:36 GMT
Is frame generation different from the motion smoothing function we all turn off on our TVs?
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KD
Junior Member
RIP EG
Posts: 1,333
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Post by KD on Sept 28, 2024 18:15:48 GMT
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Post by Hanimalle on Sept 29, 2024 9:04:12 GMT
It seems everyone here is in favor of AMD over Intel, which CPU would you guys recommend then because I haven't bought an AMD processor in ages so admittedly I'm not too knowledgeable when it comes to what they have to offer.
As for the watercooling, I mostly wanted to give it a try because I've never gone that route before, which I will admit is not really a strong reason so from what you said, Noctua seems a safe bet ?
I fully agree with you Chopsen when it comes to proprietary RGB software, I've had to deal with that in my current configuration and it's been a pain so I'm not eager to repeat that experience. However, I will admit I do like RGB, mostly because I feel like it helps showcase some of my personality, something that I'm unable to fully do in my daily life for reasons I will not go into here.
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Post by grey_matters on Sept 29, 2024 10:03:52 GMT
The 9800X3D is rumoured to be out in November, that'll probably be a fast one for games. Full system cost will be pretty high though.
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Post by Jambowayoh on Sept 29, 2024 10:09:13 GMT
I'd have thought the 7800X3D is still the go to for a while now.
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Post by uiruki on Sept 29, 2024 10:09:26 GMT
I’ve had a couple of AIO coolers and my biggest problem with them has been pump noise at idle - they never stop running even when they don’t “need” to cool anything like fans can.
Best gaming processor is 7800X3D right now but if you’re looking at AM5 then it’s definitely worth waiting to see what happens with the 9800X3D. If you’re on a budget, an AM4 system with a 5800X3D or 5700X3D is a really good value option that gets you most of the way there. I don’t think it’s worth going over 8 cores right now because, unless something changes with the 9800X3D like the above rumoured multiple X3D caches, you’ll have to deal with programs going between chiplets. Most of the time the scheduler will take care of it just fine but if you don’t need the extra cores for workstation type apps then you’ll find that it’s more of a pain for little benefit.
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Post by stixxuk on Sept 29, 2024 10:56:38 GMT
Been pretty happy with my 7600X CPU tbh. Could just as easily have got the 7600.
GPU is still the bottleneck for most things where it matters, but is plenty fast enough for all but ray tracing (and some of the more ridiculous Ultra settings where you can't see a difference in anything but frame rate).
Plus flexibility to upgrade to a better AM5 CPU and GPU down the line. Will probably end up going nVidia for my next GPU though, the feature gap is a bit frustrating with DLSS especially but also the other bits like RTX HDR and ray tracing to some extent.
And get an air cooler, really doesn't seem like AIOs are worth it for these setups.
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crashV👀d👀
Junior Member
not just a game anymore...
Posts: 3,892
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Post by crashV👀d👀 on Sept 29, 2024 14:51:01 GMT
Unless budget it's a constraint I'd suggest going AM5 at this point because AM4 is going nowhere else. 7800x3D is the best zen 4 chip for gaming but you can go for a lower range chip, not get as many frames (negligible diff) but save some cash for uprated GPU or upgrade in future.
I would however not go for anything less than 8 cores. I've said it before but with consoles all being 8 core this is the minimum baseline. Go for more if you want but don't go any less
finally, I feel the ideal speed of ddr5 for zen 4 is 6000mt/s as it lines up nicely with the infinity fabric clock speed. I'll need to double check this
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Post by Hanimalle on Sept 30, 2024 18:46:16 GMT
Thanks so much everyone for your advice, here's my revised wishlist following what you guys have informed me about :
CPU : AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D
CPU Cooler : Noctua NH-U12A Chromax Black
RAM : Corsair Vengeance Black - 2 x 16 Go DDR 5 6000 MHz - CL30 - Ryzen Edition
Graphics Card : MSI GeForce RTX 4070 Ti SUPER GAMING X SLIM
Case : MSI MPG Gungnir 110R
Power Supply : MSI MPG A850G PCIE5 - Gold
SSD : Samsung 990 PRO - 2 To
Motherboard : MSI MAG X670E TOMAHAWK WIFI
I do have one more question, the SSD I've picked comes in two versions, one with heatsink, one without. Is it worth it to choose the version that has a heatsink as the price difference is not too excessive or is it a waste of money ? Thanks again!
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Post by dfunked on Sept 30, 2024 18:54:10 GMT
I'd say check your motherboard manual as a lot of them have their own heatsinks built in over the nvme slots and wouldn't work with SSDs with them already attached.
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