Bongo Heracles
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Dune
Oct 23, 2021 19:41:58 GMT
Post by Bongo Heracles on Oct 23, 2021 19:41:58 GMT
he certainly has a style which you could probably see the clearest on caladan, which were some of my favourite scenes in the movie.
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Dune
Oct 24, 2021 2:07:27 GMT
Post by Bill in the rain on Oct 24, 2021 2:07:27 GMT
Was gonna IMAX it last week, but was crazy busy and so it was impossible. Maybe this week if things settle down a bit.
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Dune
Oct 24, 2021 4:59:08 GMT
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Post by 😎 on Oct 24, 2021 4:59:08 GMT
Don’t think I’ve ever been more impressed but also so frustrated at a movie before. Impressed because it’s about as good as it could ever be done on film. Frustrated because a) if we don’t get sequels then it’s going to have been an awful waste and b) it definitely puts a long term kibosh on my dream of an epic sprawling series that could have contained all the various political machinations that are way too dense to fit into a couple of movies.
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f00b_inc
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Dune
Oct 24, 2021 6:49:04 GMT
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Post by f00b_inc on Oct 24, 2021 6:49:04 GMT
Got my ticket booked for 10am this morning! Hoping for a quiet cinema. Quite looking forward to this!
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Reviewer
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Dune
Oct 24, 2021 7:58:36 GMT
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Post by Reviewer on Oct 24, 2021 7:58:36 GMT
At this point I’d go to the cinema for anything by this director. I’ve loved every film I’ve seen by him but he also has a style that really does make the most of a huge screen, there aren’t that many directors that it does.
Think my next cinema trip now is either spider man or the next mission impossible.
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anephric
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Dune
Oct 24, 2021 15:32:41 GMT
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Post by anephric on Oct 24, 2021 15:32:41 GMT
Hmm, my adrenalines have dissipated slightly. I'd give this a 7 or an 8 out of 10. I wouldn't necessarily say I even prefer it to Lynch's version. The good things: Timothee Chalamet is surprisingly good. I had no problems with him whatsoever. Same with the rest of the cast, even Moam. I warmed to his Duncan quite quickly - at least he had some humanity to him and you can see why Paul would idolise someone like that. I also had no problems with his death scene: pretty much every other version has shortchanged him, so he got a decent blaze of glory here. Isaac is mostly wasted as Leto though. It looks mostly great, but in a very Spartan, empty way, in fact I probably had more problems with that than passion for. Caladan just seems like big empty rooms with nothing in them. Zimmer's score is noisy but has no real themes. It's decent mood music, even if leans on the atonal a bit too often. When composers start referencing Ligeti, it's because it's lazy shorthand for LOOK IT'S WEIRD SCI-FI. The Harkonnens are alright. They don't do much other than the obvious and have no real dialogue scenes. What really irritated me: Complete lack of imperial Lansraad shenanigans and an absent emperor. The dialogue is banal and forgettable. I think they did this to distance themselves from the Lynch version since he used so much of Herbert's dialogue verbatim. It's a poor decision: it's mostly naffer, banal versions of it. Really poor set-up of Yueh's betrayal. It's like they almost couldn't be bothered. They also shortchange Thufir. Same as Lynch, all the background flavour and characters of Arrakis and Arrakeen are lost. Apart from the crowds when the Atreides arrive, it might as well be a ghost town. Villeneuve does the big story beats well enough I suppose but even the big battle is a bit of a letdown. It's alright I suppose, but it's over and done with very quickly and there's no real personal stakes shown, apart from Duncan. And where are the fucking pugs!?! I dunno, I was a bit disappointed. I'm fairly confident now this should have been a big-budget TV series with the length to get almost everything in, they finance much shitter things with tonnes of money. I enjoyed BR2049 much much more. So, 7 or 7.5 out of ten.
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anephric
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Dune
Oct 24, 2021 15:35:03 GMT
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Post by anephric on Oct 24, 2021 15:35:03 GMT
I also got a weird look off the people next to me when I knew the Fremen sayings and anticipated them in whispers.
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anephric
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Dune
Oct 24, 2021 15:39:49 GMT
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Post by anephric on Oct 24, 2021 15:39:49 GMT
It definitely puts a long term kibosh on my dream of an epic sprawling series that could have contained all the various political machinations that are way too dense to fit into a couple of movies. This this and absolutely this. It's like Dune Lite®. They do at least try to foreshadow the golden path/jihad is an abomination really, so they get plus points for that.
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Dune
Oct 24, 2021 15:52:53 GMT
Post by creepyloungelizard on Oct 24, 2021 15:52:53 GMT
Saw Dune yesterday..its good. Perhaps very good but something about it was just..off, and I love everything the director has done. I can't believe I'm saying this but I think I prefer the Lynch one
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Dune
Oct 24, 2021 15:55:34 GMT
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Post by 😎 on Oct 24, 2021 15:55:34 GMT
Timotheeeeeee Chalamet I thought was great as the fish out of water fairly naive Paul but I’m not sure I buy him as a great strong leader and even less so as a world weary false messiah if they ever get around to Dune Messiah . Towards the end he gave me big Hayden Christensen in Revenge of the Sith vibes. Also if they do go full hog and have Duncan’s ghola as the true kwisatz haderach then I also don’t see that plying out well with current casting.
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anephric
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Dune
Oct 24, 2021 16:00:23 GMT
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Post by anephric on Oct 24, 2021 16:00:23 GMT
People continually shit on the Lynch one but if you really consider all the good things in it, it gets more right than wrong. If Lynch had had his three hours, all those deleted scenes really add to it and the second half wouldn't just be a bad montage.
The production design is absolutely gorgeous in Lynch's film. Yeah, you've got dodgy gay pervy old Baron, but that's because Herbert was homophobic as fuck (he practically disowned his son when he came out) so they were only being true to the book and didn't know better in the 80s to change that.
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Dune
Oct 24, 2021 17:12:43 GMT
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Post by 😎 on Oct 24, 2021 17:12:43 GMT
The more I think about the more I go full binary on the new version. It’s got some nice incidental details for the fans (Gurney reading an Orange Catholic Bible!) but also occasionally has something that makes my inner lore pedant twitch (Mapes unsheathes a Crysknife and puts it away without drawing blood, and letting Jessica’s guards see it, the lack of detail about why Yueh’s betrayal is such a big deal with regards to Imperial conditioning , the lack of stained lips for the mentats)
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anephric
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Dune
Oct 24, 2021 17:20:17 GMT
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Post by anephric on Oct 24, 2021 17:20:17 GMT
I thought Thufir and Piter have a sort-of stain tattoo on their bottom lips? You never see them gulping any Juice of Sapho though. And apart from Thufir doing his one eye-rolling trick, they don't even mention what Mentats are or why they're necessary, or why Piter has become twisted etc. Piter does fuck all though.
So much left out.
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anephric
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Dune
Oct 24, 2021 17:24:08 GMT
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Post by anephric on Oct 24, 2021 17:24:08 GMT
Didn't Mapes nick herself under her sleeve before she put it back? I'm sure I remember that.
I imagine there's a tonne of deleted scenes, there's certainly gom jabbar dialogue in the trailer Gauis Helen says that's not in the final cut.
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Dune
Oct 24, 2021 17:25:31 GMT
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Post by 😎 on Oct 24, 2021 17:25:31 GMT
Yeah, it’s just kind of a lip tattoo instead of a juice stain. I’m trying to remember as well but I’m sure there’s something in the books about the Baron having auburn hair ( as a reference to how he’s really Jessica’s father ) but maybe I’m Mandela-ing myself and mixing it with Ken McMillain in Dune 84.
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Dune
Oct 24, 2021 17:28:26 GMT
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Post by 😎 on Oct 24, 2021 17:28:26 GMT
Didn't Mapes nick herself under her sleeve before she put it back? I'm sure I remember that. I just rewatched the scene to check and she definitely doesn’t. The fremen in the desert do though, which makes it absence more notable.
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anephric
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Dune
Oct 24, 2021 17:30:46 GMT
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Post by anephric on Oct 24, 2021 17:30:46 GMT
Ah, no fair, you've got special secret home video edition.
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Dune
Oct 24, 2021 17:30:49 GMT
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Post by 😎 on Oct 24, 2021 17:30:49 GMT
And to be clear I did really enjoy the film, I’m just being super pedantic as I’m a super fan of Dune. I’ve re-read one or more of the proper books at least once a year for nearly 30 years.
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anephric
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Dune
Oct 24, 2021 17:34:43 GMT
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Post by anephric on Oct 24, 2021 17:34:43 GMT
In fact, the Yueh thing is going to annoy me more and more as I think about it. All you had to do was have one tiny scene the same as Lynch did with Jessica somehow remarking on the imperial conditioning. It's just half-assed. They could only be bothered with the big story moments and left out almost everything else.
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Dune
Oct 24, 2021 18:02:28 GMT
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Post by stacks on Oct 24, 2021 18:02:28 GMT
I didn't mind the yueh thing. As it seems half arsed in the book. I always found it annoying in the book that the Baron harks on about how he was the one that broke the conditioning. I mean keeping someone's wife a hostage would break anyone I would imagine. So surely his conditioning would have been above that?
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anephric
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Dune
Oct 24, 2021 18:06:52 GMT
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Post by anephric on Oct 24, 2021 18:06:52 GMT
It's intimated the Baron did horrible things beyond that. Which is how he ends up with a twisted mentat too, he put in the work.
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Dune
Oct 24, 2021 18:12:46 GMT
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Post by 😎 on Oct 24, 2021 18:12:46 GMT
Yeah, it’s heavily suggested that the Harkonnen power is that they’ve worked out how to break imperial conditioning and it’s way more than just “we kidnapped and tortured your wife” - who is also Bene Gesserit - rather than Imperial Conditioning being overrated
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Dune
Oct 24, 2021 18:16:48 GMT
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Post by stacks on Oct 24, 2021 18:16:48 GMT
Surely a well educated bloke like Yueh. With the conditioning of a Suk Doctor would be aware that in that sort of situation both he and his wife had to die at the end of the gig. So why do it? It doesn't stand to reason too well (for me anyway.) Then to be killed in such a banal fashion too.[\spoiler]
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Dune
Oct 24, 2021 18:18:51 GMT
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Post by stacks on Oct 24, 2021 18:18:51 GMT
I keep spelling spoiler, spolier so maybe my reasoning ain't what I think it is
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anephric
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Dune
Oct 24, 2021 18:24:00 GMT
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Post by anephric on Oct 24, 2021 18:24:00 GMT
He does know, in his heart of hearts, that's why he gives Leto the tooth. I suppose he loves her so much his reasoning becomes mostly distorted and he clings on to any hope he can save her.
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Dune
Oct 24, 2021 18:31:04 GMT
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Post by 😎 on Oct 24, 2021 18:31:04 GMT
Its manipulation within manipulation. In Piter’s monologuing he reveals part of it is making Yueh want to kill the Baron, and that his betrayal of Leto is a by product of that instead of the direct motive. It should have been a win win for Piter, if the Baron actually gets killed he knows Rabban, the next in line, is easily manipulated, if the Baron survives then he curries big favor. Plans within plans within plans and all that. It’s this sort of nuance that’s obviously hard to do in a two and a half hour movie, though Piter is barely a character in this - is his name even mentioned?
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anephric
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Dune
Oct 24, 2021 18:34:33 GMT
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Post by anephric on Oct 24, 2021 18:34:33 GMT
Nope.
I'd forgotten all that, I need to read the first book again.
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anephric
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Dune
Oct 24, 2021 18:36:24 GMT
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Post by anephric on Oct 24, 2021 18:36:24 GMT
The TV series, for all its faults, does all the Machiavellian stuff really well and the Baron constantly fretting about being assassinated by his own heirs.
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Dune
Oct 24, 2021 18:38:03 GMT
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Post by stacks on Oct 24, 2021 18:38:03 GMT
Yeah, it’s heavily suggested that the Harkonnen power is that they’ve worked out how to break imperial conditioning and it’s way more than just “we kidnapped and tortured your wife” - who is also Bene Gesserit - rather than Imperial Conditioning being overrated Fair point. I have never read the sequels so not sure of the depth of explanation in those. But I feel this wasn't quite as plain as that in the first book.
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Dune
Oct 24, 2021 18:41:19 GMT
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Post by stacks on Oct 24, 2021 18:41:19 GMT
Its manipulation within manipulation. In Piter’s monologuing he reveals part of it is making Yueh want to kill the Baron, and that his betrayal of Leto is a by product of that instead of the direct motive. It should have been a win win for Piter, if the Baron actually gets killed he knows Rabban, the next in line, is easily manipulated, if the Baron survives then he curries big favor. Plans within plans within plans and all that. It’s this sort of nuance that’s obviously hard to do in a two and a half hour movie, though Piter is barely a character in this - is his name even mentioned? Knocking it out of the park. Giving me the answers while I'm asking the questions! Though I agree it's left undeveloped in the latest film. But then again the film does allow us as fans of the book to fill in the space. At least they didn't directly contradict the events of the book. (Hello Peter Jackson.)
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