Tuffty
Junior Member
Posts: 3,606
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Post by Tuffty on Jan 22, 2023 10:20:56 GMT
A few hours in to ME3 now (been to the Turian moon and Salarian base) and I’m impressed at how urgent the game makes the war effort seem. My journal is filling up with jobs and all of them feel like they need an immediate response, whereas in 2 I took my time planning out which mission felt like the most natural next “episode” to follow my previous mission. I couldn't quite get over the fact that the Reapers attacked Earth from the get go and I always had that info at the back of my mind that kinda spoiled the experience for me. Think there's some line in the game about millions dying every day so why the fuck are they wasting time getting Shepherd to sort out some squabble between the gangs on the Citadel. It's so beneath Shepherd at this point. |
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Post by simple on Jan 22, 2023 10:27:21 GMT
Yeah, I know they say the harvest took hundreds of years to erase all intelligent life in the previous cycle but you’d think they could do one world in pretty short order. There’s no clear timeline of how long 3 is set over but its got to be months right?
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Post by RadicalRex on Jan 22, 2023 13:36:13 GMT
One of my main gripes with ME3 is how it diminishes the Reaper threat. From what we learn in ME1, once they arrive it's game over. The combined efforts of you and the Citadel forces just barely managed to stop one of them. Now that an armada of them arrives, how is shooting at them going to do anything? Basically we're some guys with slingshots facing attack helicopters, and somehow Shepard's suggestion in the intro is "we fight or we die". Worked out great for the Protheans and everyone before, didn't it.
I guess they wrote themselves into a corner, similar to what happened with the Borg in Star Trek. They were introduced as some unstoppable menace, but with time we're just blowing them up front, left and centre.
I guess part of the problem is that ME3 was a rushed release, with such massive scope and weight on its shoulders it needed to be one of the biggest games of all time, yet it was released only two years after ME2 and in my opinion it shows. It required a lot of refinement, but the schedule didn't allow it. And to be fair, considering how little time they had it's a miracle it turned out as good as it did.
It needed more time. Thankfully they learned that lesson for Andr... forget what I said. |
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Post by simple on Jan 22, 2023 13:55:49 GMT
Still, at least EA got loot boxes into the multiplayer and isn’t that what ME fans had been waiting for all this time?
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aubergine
Junior Member
I must get over myself
Posts: 2,181
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Post by aubergine on Jan 23, 2023 0:45:15 GMT
This was all hashed out at the time, but the framing device of ME3 is fucking terrible and bears no examination. The reapers arriving at Earth should have been the beginning of the third act. The urgency of the opening scene followed by Sit The Fuck Down tasks after that threw me right out of the game, couldn’t take it seriously.
Much the same with Fallout 4. I came tearing out of the vault emotionally invested in saving a baby, and the game said Sit The Fuck Down and do some carpentry and home decoration.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2023 0:49:25 GMT
To be fair to Fallout 4’s protag, they forgot they had a child the moment they rescued a German Shepherd.
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Post by Aunt Alison on Jan 23, 2023 0:53:56 GMT
I keep thinking about picking up New Vegas or Fallout 4 and then remember they're probably shit. It's a pain
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Post by starchildhypocrethes on Jan 23, 2023 2:35:24 GMT
New Vegas is most definitely not shit, you filthy heathen.
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Tuffty
Junior Member
Posts: 3,606
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Post by Tuffty on Jan 23, 2023 8:57:35 GMT
Any game that gives you all this freedom while trying to push some urgency on the main quest has this issue I feel. Even one of the best in the genre, Witcher 3, has the issue of "Your Foster daughter is in danger and needs help NOW....but how about a game of Gwent?". I can't tell which is worse, ME3 or FO4. The latter was the most pointless because there's no reason to care beyond the story trying to tug on your paternal instinct, you spend no time with the kid so why should you the player care? At least with ME3 you've cared about particular characters you wanna see survive, but to me at least it was all offset by the fact that as you try to seduce the bad Jessica Chobot model, youre aware that millions are dying.
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MolarAm🔵
Full Member
Bad at games
Posts: 6,840
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Post by MolarAm🔵 on Jan 23, 2023 9:07:33 GMT
It feels worse in Fallout 4 to me, because looking for your kid isn't really tied to anything else you're being asked to do. Hey maybe your kid is alone and scared and in danger, but look, the Minutemen have things for you to do! Your settlements need protecting!
At least in Witcher 3, you know that Ciri is mostly capable of taking care of herself.
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Post by Aunt Alison on Jan 23, 2023 9:38:27 GMT
Similarly with Fallout 3, I think there's room to allow the fact your character is setting foot into a world they know nothing about without any means. You would need to consider survival first- food, water, shelter, weapons, allies, information, leads, etc. I always play Fallout 3 with the idea that I need to meet as many people as possible with the hope that someone will have information to help find your dad or provide some kind of assistance, so it feels natural to help people
Can't really speak for Fallout 4 but I would presumably take the same mindset. Finding someone in the wasteland is going to require help, so you help people and get caught up in their struggles. You hope your son is out there and it's still your main goal, but you don't know that you will ever actually find him, if he's even alive. There are people who need your help now though. Helping restore the Minutemen could help in finding your son, even more so if it turns out he's in danger. I don't think it's too bad of a setup
I can see a conversation where someone asks you why you help people and your character goes off about knowing your son is out there somewhere and if he needed help, you hope someone would do the same for him. Somewhere along the line, you find a clue and your new buddies are, like, we're with you, brother. Let's go get him. You find him and live happily ever after eating rats
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Post by Aunt Alison on Jan 23, 2023 9:42:45 GMT
I don't think I need to play Fallout 4 now. Feel like I've played it already. It was alright - story was a bit shit
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Post by baihu1983 on Jan 23, 2023 9:45:51 GMT
Wish they had stuck with the Dark Energy plot that was originally planned.
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MolarAm🔵
Full Member
Bad at games
Posts: 6,840
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Post by MolarAm🔵 on Jan 23, 2023 9:46:24 GMT
I mean, I'm not a parent. But I'd imagine if your last memory before waking up is your spouse getting murdered and your kid abducted, sorting that out would be a pretty high priority upon waking up.
Yeah, it's a thing that affects most open world games. I just think some justify it more than others. Like doing the side stuff in ME3 being meant to help the war effort. It's still a bit weird, but it's a decent stab at justification.
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Post by Aunt Alison on Jan 23, 2023 9:54:31 GMT
I'm a pragmatist. He'll have to wait
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Post by simple on Jan 23, 2023 10:03:19 GMT
I’m about halfway through ME3 (I think) and it does feel like you’re flying about a galaxy at war. Compared to the first two it definitely delivers on that front.
And the series has set up that the Prothreans held out for hundreds of years, but the galaxy is a big place with a lot of worlds to conquer. You’d think one planet wouldn’t take them that long.
I know it wouldn’t have the same cinematic and emotional impact but would it make more sense in addressing gameplay concerns if Palavan fell at the start of the game and that was the wake-up call to set Shepherd’s galactic readiness mission off. Then Earth is the Reapers next target and the battle with Shepherds armada there forms the final act of the game/war?
That said I’m having an excellent time with the game, its a lot better and more story focussed than I remembered with really substantial dlc missions too.
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Tuffty
Junior Member
Posts: 3,606
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Post by Tuffty on Jan 23, 2023 11:16:39 GMT
I totally understand why your character in FO4 wants to save their child, but there's no resonance with me, the player, to go do that. I dont know this kid and the game never cared to afford the time to let me care about it, so why should I bother? Dying Light 2 asks you to find and save your sister which means a lot to the protaganist but again doesn't give the player any reason to care about that. They're not even characters, it's just an objective they're pressing you to do.
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Post by RadicalRex on Jan 23, 2023 12:42:01 GMT
I think this is one of the reasons why the voiced player character didn't do FO4 any favours. You sound all distressed and concerned when talking about your son, but when the topic changes or you talk to someone else, it is immediately forgotten as you talk with all the calm in the world and can do super lame "sarcastic" quips all the time. There's such a disconnect when the voice actor switches back and forth between these opposite modes.
Skyrim can also be criticised for how it jumps back and forth between urgency and faffing about, but having your lines only in on-screen text makes it less jarring imo.
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aubergine
Junior Member
I must get over myself
Posts: 2,181
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Post by aubergine on Jan 23, 2023 13:20:01 GMT
I totally understand why your character in FO4 wants to save their child, but there's no resonance with me, the player, to go do that. I dont know this kid and the game never cared to afford the time to let me care about it, so why should I bother? Dying Light 2 asks you to find and save your sister which means a lot to the protaganist but again doesn't give the player any reason to care about that. They're not even characters, it's just an objective they're pressing you to do. I actually get right into this sort of thing and like to make decisions in player-choice games off my real feelings and morals. So it fucking sucks when the game itself poops right into your mouth for taking what it’s offering seriously. Hurry up and save the universe with twenty more wolf hides for the orphanage. |
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Post by simple on Jan 23, 2023 13:28:02 GMT
I think Skyrim balances it fairly well because the main quest is more a framing device and context for whats going on, same for the civil war.
Oblivion with its world ending demon invasion but also, why not fanny about in a meadow, is a bigger example of this issue.
Morrowind goes the other way where there is zero urgency or even clear direction at the off.
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Post by technoish on Jan 23, 2023 13:37:19 GMT
I'm sure Churchill took time off from the war effort to do the odd DIY job for his neighbours in WW2.
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aubergine
Junior Member
I must get over myself
Posts: 2,181
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Post by aubergine on Jan 23, 2023 13:44:24 GMT
I think Skyrim balances it fairly well because the main quest is more a framing device and context for whats going on, same for the civil war. Oblivion with its world ending demon invasion but also, why not fanny about in a meadow, is a bigger example of this issue. Morrowind goes the other way where there is zero urgency or even clear direction at the off. The only difference is that, in Skyrim, the player character never opens their mouth and says “I even give a shit about this specific plot thread” nor has a facial expression. It doesn’t try to engage with you emotionally at all, just assures you every linear quest funhouse will wait patiently for you to arrive and there’s no consequence to anything. |
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Post by drhickman1983 on Jan 23, 2023 14:59:22 GMT
It's a problem that plagues nearly every RPG in existence.
It's basically impossible to have a time critical sense of urgency co-exist with side missions.
Sephiroth has summoned the meteor. Ah fuck it, let's breed chocobos.
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Post by baihu1983 on Jan 23, 2023 15:25:49 GMT
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Post by simple on Jan 23, 2023 15:40:41 GMT
As if they didn’t go for “New year new ME”
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Post by simple on Jan 23, 2023 15:42:37 GMT
It's a problem that plagues nearly every RPG in existence. It's basically impossible to have a time critical sense of urgency co-exist with side missions. Sephiroth has summoned the meteor. Ah fuck it, let's breed chocobos. Because I wanted it to feel like I was really in it I didn’t use fast travel once in Skyrim. It was very easy to get distracted along the way. |
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Post by simple on Jan 26, 2023 18:32:47 GMT
As I prepare to tell the Quarians off for mistreating the Cylons my thoughts are already projecting ahead to starting Andromeda once 3 is done.
Is there any consensus on whether male or female Ryder is the preferred choice? He looks very bland but she has a distractingly massive face from the impression the trailers give.
Femshep always felt the more natural choice to me but I can’t tell with Andromeda which might make more sense to pick there.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2023 18:39:08 GMT
I really need to go back and complete it at some point. I was making good progress, then my PS4 Pro died and I lost my save because my Plus sub was lapsed at the time. I went with male Ryder because I try to make myself on every first playthrough of a game, before I do the female runs. I thought he looked alright.  Although his VO is pretty much Nolan North Jr., if you find that jarring. |
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Post by The12thMonkey on Jan 26, 2023 20:16:45 GMT
I’m about halfway through ME3 (I think) and it does feel like you’re flying about a galaxy at war. Compared to the first two it definitely delivers on that front. And the series has set up that the Prothreans held out for hundreds of years, but the galaxy is a big place with a lot of worlds to conquer. You’d think one planet wouldn’t take them that long. I know it wouldn’t have the same cinematic and emotional impact but would it make more sense in addressing gameplay concerns if Palavan fell at the start of the game and that was the wake-up call to set Shepherd’s galactic readiness mission off. Then Earth is the Reapers next target and the battle with Shepherds armada there forms the final act of the game/war? That said I’m having an excellent time with the game, its a lot better and more story focussed than I remembered with really substantial dlc missions too. I've never done a playthrough and not saved the Council at the end of ME - how much does it affect the view of the other Citadel races? Does having a human Council change the impact of Palaven and all the other main Council worlds? I wonder if considerations for all the big choices you could make through the trilogy affected the direction they felt they needed to take at the start of ME3? |
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Post by RadicalRex on Jan 26, 2023 21:13:33 GMT
Is there any consensus on whether male or female Ryder is the preferred choice? He looks very bland but she has a distractingly massive face from the impression the trailers give. I was fine with default female Ryder, but perhaps make your own...? I thought one of the greatest things about ME games is that I can create my own character and it actually matters because you see your character in so many great scenes. One word of warning if you do, Andromeda's creator has a little quirk. You can't just select "custom" and do any face possible from there, you're just modifying the default model that was selected at that point. If you want different facial structure like one of the other default models, you need to first select that and then go custom. Just a heads up, I didn't realise this the first time and inadvertently heavily limited my options. Well, Maleshep was the default in the trilogy, Femryder is the default in Andromeda. |
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