|
|
Post by Aunt Alison on May 12, 2022 18:11:16 GMT
BANDIT LYYYYYFE!
|
|
|
|
Post by RadicalRex on May 12, 2022 20:54:37 GMT
Do you just respec the same 4 characters when trying different builds? Is there a reason to ever have more than one of each? When trying out something new, I just use existing characters, but I have separate saves for my main builds. The main reason is that gear is an essential part of a build, especially thanks to anointments. For example I have a Phasecast Amara and a Phasegrasp one. With Phasecast, you want the "+250% gun damage after using Phasecast" anointment on every gun while that's obviously useless for Phasegrasp. Sure you could use the safe, but it's very inconvenient to find all that stuff in your safe again every time. Plus, if you're collecting a lot of gear with different anoints, the safe may be full quicker than you think. That's where the practice of having "mules" comes in, i.e. characters that serve as walking inventories. Playing on PC makes all of this very easy because you can copy/paste savegames so in theory you don't have to complete the game and level up with more than 4 savegames. Perhaps a little too easy as I have about 70 obsolete savegames lying around. Best of all imo are gun damage and elemental damage. In red: Top tier: gun damage Very good: critical damage, fire rate Useless: vehicle damage, melee damage (even for melee builds) Can't say anything about grenade damage, because I've never used a grenade build so in my builds grenades do little to no damage. There are grenade builds out there but I don't know how much of a difference this rank makes. Could be great like gun damage, could be shit like melee damage, I don't know. Blue is a little more complicated and it doesn't have top level bonuses like red and green: Shield recharge rate is probably my favourite Shield recharge delay is nice too, but becomes less important once you get the Shield Reboot perk FFYL duration can mean the difference between life and death, however ideally that shouldn't be happening too often, also diminished by a few guardian perks. Not that great imo but I'd still pick it over the following three Health and shield amount are problematic because they mean slower refill to 50% health/100% shields which is important for some core game mechanics. More HP also has advantages obviously, but still I prefer bonuses without potentially harmful side effects. FFYL move speed: useless. Green is even more complicated because most of these are very hard to quantify: Top tier: elemental damage Reload speed is nice Luck, accuracy, recoil reduction: very hard to tell how much of an impact they have. They all sound like great things to have, so I spend points there anyway, hoping for the best Action skill cooldown is nice too, however the Topped Off perk reduces its importance, because that gives you a whopping +200% cooldown rate while your shields are full. Still nice to have when not having full shields though. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 12, 2022 20:56:41 GMT
I really want to get Tiny Tina's Wonderlands. I'll wait for a sale though, cause I want the Ultimate Edition with all the DLC.
i usually roll Sirens in these games, except for Pre-Sequel where they weren't an option. I went Athena I think her name was? The lady in the hood with the Captain America shield.
|
|
|
|
Post by RadicalRex on May 12, 2022 21:01:45 GMT
Yeah Athena. My favourite character in TPS, and also usually sirens in all the other games. I liked Krieg too in BL2, Amara combining siren and melee was a dream come true for me.
|
|
|
|
Post by dfunked on May 12, 2022 21:32:46 GMT
@spooky - they've dropped the ball with the first bit of DLC in this massively. It's beyond a joke just how barebones it is. Tried it on the third difficulty this evening and didn't notice any difference to the last playthroughs. It's a 15 minute bit of not very good content.
So I wouldn't let the DLC sway your purchase tbh. Main game is great, though.
|
|
|
|
Post by Aunt Alison on May 12, 2022 21:43:15 GMT
Looks like I'll be finishing it on XBX now so I'll be starting again. Not too bothered about that RadicalRex What are anointments? Are they what you get on the weapons from the shouty man in the cargo bay or something I haven't come across yet? Moze has a lot of skills with splash damage so probably good character for grenades. Tempted to play through again as her just to get to the end game on XSX but should really use someone else for variety. I'd love to use Iron Bear more though if the cooldown was lower. Is jumping in and straight out again normal for Moze play? It was quite useful at first so I just stuck with it in the end. Good for jumping on the back and machine gunning bosses while Iron Bear auto attacks as well. Invincibility!
The problem I have with choosing a character is that I always think I've made up my mind, watch the intro cutscene where they all look really cool and then can't decide again when I have to pick
|
|
|
|
Post by RadicalRex on May 12, 2022 23:12:53 GMT
Yeah that are anointments, akin to enchantments in Wonderlands. After finishing the main story on normal, all loot drops can have them. Some of them are incredibly powerful so they are essential in Mayhem mode.
Can't say anything about Moze as I haven't played her in ages. Fl4k seems to have some insane grenade builds, but I haven't played any of that either. As for cooldown, yeah you want the Topped Off guardian perk (level 50 in green), that changes everything, you'll be spamming your action skills.
|
|
|
|
Post by Aunt Alison on May 13, 2022 13:02:45 GMT
Health and shield amount are problematic because they mean slower refill to 50% health/100% shields which is important for some core game mechanics What's the deal with this? Also are different weapon types suited to different characters? I would guess shotguns for Amara because she has that damage relevant to target distance skill. Maybe rifles for Moze and Zane because of her ammo regen and Zane's speed. Sniper rifles for Fl4k I was playing it basically as a standard FPS before so had a pistol, machine gun, heavy weapon but usually stuck to the same weapon. Is it better to carry guns with different damage types? |
|
|
|
Post by RadicalRex on May 13, 2022 20:03:35 GMT
Health Gate is a core mechanic in all Borderlands games that prevents you from going into FFYL from a single hit (unless self-inflicted). If you've got more than 50% health, an enemy could hit you with an h-bomb and you wouldn't die, instead you get near zero HP and are invulnerable for a second or so. You then want to get back over 50% health as soon as possible.
Some methods of health refill are percentage based while others are absolute numbers, and the latter means it takes longer to get over 50% again with more max HP. Then again, Amara's main health regen skill is so broken that in the endgame you basically get full health on every single hit on an enemy, so tbh I stopped caring. Can't say anything about the other characters, I forgot tbh.
As for shields, the aforementioned Topped Off guardian perk gives you +200% AS (action skill) cooldown rate while your shields are full, so you really want full shields as much as possible. There are other skills and gear with bonuses on full shields, but this perk is probably most important.
As for weapon types, I don't think anyone is limited to certain ones, I wouldn't worry too much about that. Amara's Personal Space skill has a huge range, so distance matters less than one might think. And on the other hand, her Phasegrasp AS is great for sniping. And FL4K is great with shotguns because his invisibility skill allows you to sneak up on enemies and every hit is a crit, so if you have a Jakobs shotgun that means all pellets ricochet to nearby enemies, one of the most monstrous builds I'd seen in the early days was actually FL4K using a purple 16 pellet Jakobs shotgun.
The most significant change with Amara is that you'll prefer elemental weapons because she has a skill that increases all elemental damage. But elemental guns become more important on higher difficulties anyway because the matching element bonuses are increased and enemies have way more HP.
|
|
|
|
Post by Aunt Alison on May 13, 2022 22:15:30 GMT
Intewesting. I'm getting more interested in understanding how things work now but it seems like I need to get a new character past the campaign to really get into it
Is there a good resource for Moze/Zane related info and grenadey stuff, that isn't overwhelming? I'll probably stick to one of those two. I was enjoying using Zane and from looking through his skills, it looks like you can chain kills together to boost your stats; speed seems to be his thing. Moze is just too cool. I love her design - reminds me of Aliens
Are annointments on legendaries randomised?
|
|
gamecat
New Member
Alone Again with the Dawn Coming Up
Posts: 618
|
Post by gamecat on May 14, 2022 9:50:33 GMT
Cannot get into Wonderlands, just seems like a lot of busy work. Did the main story + some sidequesting, total of 12 hours, this seems like borderlands DLC type of time for a story to me. Shall plod on till 40 and the 'endgame' and see what that's all about.
|
|
|
|
Post by RadicalRex on May 14, 2022 13:42:58 GMT
Intewesting. I'm getting more interested in understanding how things work now but it seems like I need to get a new character past the campaign to really get into it Is there a good resource for Moze/Zane related info and grenadey stuff, that isn't overwhelming? I haven't seen anything about grenades, that seems to be a very specialised thing. As for Zane/Moze stuff, there's probably no way it's not going to be overwhelming because there's no way to give accurate information without getting into the meat of how Borderlands maths work. But since BL3 isn't exactly a hard game, on normal and TVHM I wouldn't even bother and instead just play around and have fun. There are beginner's guides especially on Youtube, but they usually talk out of their arse (probably 90% of people who discuss skills and mechanics and such on the internet have no clue what they're talking about), so I wouldn't bother with that either. Once you want to get into it, when approaching higher levels, harder content and Mayhem modes, I believe the best way to start is Prismatic's Introduction to Borderlands Maths, which is pretty lengthy and probably overwhelming at first, but it's very good and most importantly it's 100% accurate. He's also a Moze player and wrote a "basic" guide on maximising Moze damage, although again that's mostly important once you get into the endgame. Something that's hopefully not too overwhelming and relevant on any play level is probably my own Elemental Damage Guide. In this Reddit post, links to these and other reliable resources are collected, but keep in mind most of that goes really into the meat of it. Yes, on all gear, not only legendaries. The exception is that there are a few mission reward items that can never come with an anointment. |
|
|
|
Post by Aunt Alison on May 16, 2022 20:15:22 GMT
Intewesting. I'm getting more interested in understanding how things work now but it seems like I need to get a new character past the campaign to really get into it Is there a good resource for Moze/Zane related info and grenadey stuff, that isn't overwhelming? I haven't seen anything about grenades, that seems to be a very specialised thing. As for Zane/Moze stuff, there's probably no way it's not going to be overwhelming because there's no way to give accurate information without getting into the meat of how Borderlands maths work. But since BL3 isn't exactly a hard game, on normal and TVHM I wouldn't even bother and instead just play around and have fun. There are beginner's guides especially on Youtube, but they usually talk out of their arse (probably 90% of people who discuss skills and mechanics and such on the internet have no clue what they're talking about), so I wouldn't bother with that either. Once you want to get into it, when approaching higher levels, harder content and Mayhem modes, I believe the best way to start is Prismatic's Introduction to Borderlands Maths, which is pretty lengthy and probably overwhelming at first, but it's very good and most importantly it's 100% accurate. He's also a Moze player and wrote a "basic" guide on maximising Moze damage, although again that's mostly important once you get into the endgame. Something that's hopefully not too overwhelming and relevant on any play level is probably my own Elemental Damage Guide. In this Reddit post, links to these and other reliable resources are collected, but keep in mind most of that goes really into the meat of it. Yes, on all gear, not only legendaries. The exception is that there are a few mission reward items that can never come with an anointment. Yeah, I went with Moze again because she's too cool. Playing on XBX now and, more importantly, patched. My PS4 playthrough was straight off the disc. There's a lot of noticable differences so it doesn't really feel like a retread of my first playthrough
I don't know if it's due to balancing or I've had some great drops but it's way, way easier now. I'm up to the moon mission and I've had a fair few lengendary drops. Ammo pick ups seems a lot more generous. The blood effects look a lot better. I've done the first area a few times now to try out the different classes but I've seen new weapon types I've never seen before right off the bat (double barrel pistols)
Best of all, the cooldown on Iron Bear is much shorter now and the fuel lasts longer too so I'm using it all the time. No need to hop out to make the most of it. AND, I got a class mod that lets him continue to fight automatically after I jump out for the remainder of the fuel he has left! Nothing can really stand up to me at the moment. It's crazy fun
I've gone with the railgun instead of machine gun this time as well. Noticed that I hadn't properly set my weapons up on Iron Bear last time either (you can add an additional modifier as well as the weapon) so quite a lot of new stuff to play with
See your point about just enjoying it as is for now without worrying too much about the details - I'm not struggling for damage at all. I really love this though
Is any of the DLC worth having early on? It's now being dangled in front of me as I've installed the patch. Classy
|
|
|
|
Post by RadicalRex on May 17, 2022 9:54:35 GMT
I wasn't aware you were playing the day 1 version, no wonder the Lob was so useless. A lot has changed through patches and a lot of free content added. The first 4 DLCs (season 1, included in the GOTY) are campaign DLCs and the're mostly great, but unnecessary before finishing the content of the main game.
DLC5 (Designer's Cut, part of season 2, so not in the GOTY) adds a 4th skill tree, so that changes a lot no matter the content you play--but the original 3 skill trees offer more than enough to wrap your head around, so not necessary. Also keep in mind that this was released relatively late into the game's life cycle, so most of the resources online on how the game works and builds etc. are centred on the original 3 trees. It's not a campaign DLC, it only adds a battle royale style game mode with one map and no skills are allowed.
DLC6 introduces raid bosses and I haven't even played that yet because I stopped playing before its release. I'm going to though as I have started replaying BL3 myself recently.
|
|
|
|
Post by Aunt Alison on May 17, 2022 12:45:09 GMT
Yeah, the patch was 64gb- I think that's the same size as the base game. I don't know if that includes the DLC that's downloaded but gated off though
Are you playing Amara again?
I noticed something else about the class mod last night; although you no longer retain some of the cooldown meter if you jump out early, the cooldown starts again as soon as you exit no matter what. So he can stay up for quite a while on his own and be ready to pop again in no time. I don't know if that's an annoitment as I'm just on a normal mode playthrough and it was a drop but I don't remember finding anything like that last time and it's very cool
|
|
|
|
Post by RadicalRex on May 17, 2022 16:41:48 GMT
Yeah Amara again, I tried the others for a while a long time ago, but I never had nearly as much fun as with Amara, she just suits my preferred playstyle so well (Moze does least so). What you describe must be part of the class mod, you can't find loot with anoints before finishing the main story, and anoints are always explicitly described at the bottom of the item card.
|
|
|
|
Post by Aunt Alison on May 17, 2022 17:00:38 GMT
How many different builds are there for Amara? Do you pick skills from all three trees? It's hard to imagine a huge amount of variety from my understanding of things at the moment
It's not really like Diabo where each skill tends to be a unique ability you can build your character around. Rather, each class seems to have 3 distinct skills you can customise though their trees
|
|
gamecat
New Member
Alone Again with the Dawn Coming Up
Posts: 618
|
Post by gamecat on May 17, 2022 17:38:24 GMT
Endgame builds are usually about synergies between skills and certain COMs, weapons, artifacts or shields. Crazy things can happen when you start getting multiplicative bonuses. A google doc with viable Amara endgame builds has 10 there, some will probably use the 4th skill tree though. There is also a bunch on YT, something like Moxy's Amara playlist, though I think you can probably ignore everything but the last 6 or so of those, they go out of date quickly. |
|
|
|
Post by RadicalRex on May 17, 2022 18:04:15 GMT
There is no limited set of builds, although there are a few that tend to be the most effective. With Amara, e.g. you can make a melee build or you can ignore melee entirely. You can make a build that deletes mobs but isn't good against bosses, or you can make a build that focuses on raw single target gun damage. And within those general "categories" you can set different priorities to make it work differently, with pros and cons.
Melee Amara was the first one I played and it felt like Doom on steroids, especially with the Hellwalker which is the double-barrel shotgun from Doom 2016, only better. Haven't played that in a long while because it's difficult to make it work on high difficulties, but thinking about it I may just try again.
Also, some legendary gear comes with characteristics that completely change gameplay, and consequently require different builds to be most effective. For example, Amara has a class mod that increases gun damage the faster you're moving--it also makes you super fast while you're on fire, and it makes you set yourself on fire when using an action skill. The elephant in the room is the Face-Puncher shotgun whose pellets deal melee damage instead of gun damage, and so it benefits from all melee bonuses and effects and skills which is just insane. And so, there's a variety of builds out there that are all exclusive to this one weapon but combining it with different skills, action skills, and other gear.
And generally you use a combination of skills from different trees, you can't make a good build using just one of them. Very most skills are independent of the AS they share a tree with, and in fact, they can often be most beneficial to an AS in another tree.
|
|
|
|
Post by Aunt Alison on May 17, 2022 19:04:29 GMT
I've been sticking to the trees I use the active skills for so far
All sounds very interesting though. I'm going to keep gunning through until I've finished the campaign with Moze again (shame you don't like her!) and then either push on or maybe do a playthrough with Zane before going into the endgame. Definitely want to get into some of the more complex stuff though. Still not even a little bit bored of it
Turned around for a moment earlier and Iron Bear just took out the Katagawa ball boss and rained down 3 legendaries on me. Then got another one straight after as if I wasn't quite killing enemies fast enough. I'm all orange gear now too. The class mod I mentioned earlier is a lengendary
|
|
|
|
Post by Aunt Alison on May 17, 2022 19:23:52 GMT
Appreciate all the detailed responses by the way I bought Tiny Tina's because of your professed love of Borderlands and you like other cool things like MM, Doom and Quake. And also your review of TT
|
|
|
|
Post by RadicalRex on May 20, 2022 1:03:02 GMT
BL3 is now free on EGS, just in case anyone missed it in the free games thread
|
|
|
|
Post by Aunt Alison on May 20, 2022 6:31:43 GMT
Lost my save so having to do the entirety of Promethea again. Missing the class mod I had but I've had a shield that gave me a drone and I've got one now that converts most of my health to shields. Suddenly those skils that kick in when you have low health sound more useful Noticed they've changed the light effect when you open the Eridian chests, thankfully. They really stuck out as looking bad before, along with the blood
Trant and the Ava's diary quest are pretty funny
|
|
|
|
Post by Aunt Alison on May 22, 2022 22:14:04 GMT
I find Ice-T's voice really grating and don't enjoy that section
I got that class mod again anyway. It must be a regular drop from the boss. Also just got a super powerful double barrel Jakobs shotgun that turns everything into a mist of blood, and a grenade that does 4000 damage, but only from a direct hit. R1 is basically a delete enemy button
|
|
gamecat
New Member
Alone Again with the Dawn Coming Up
Posts: 618
|
Post by gamecat on May 23, 2022 9:39:35 GMT
I guess that will be a Hellwaker, those things are crazy OP for leveling up, a mids 20s one can still be useful till mid 50s. Grenades unfortunately really tail off, they are really only used for their anoints after a bit, can't do any crazy grenade builds like BL2.
|
|
|
|
Post by puddleduck on May 23, 2022 10:10:31 GMT
I'm pretty sure there's some unlimited grenade Moze builds.
My main was always Flak with a hellwalker though. Loved that gun.
|
|
|
|
Post by Aunt Alison on May 24, 2022 8:05:08 GMT
I guess that will be a Hellwaker, those things are crazy OP for leveling up, a mids 20s one can still be useful till mid 50s. Grenades unfortunately really tail off, they are really only used for their anoints after a bit, can't do any crazy grenade builds like BL2. It is. Speedloadin' Hellwalker to be precise. Plays a guitar sound when you fire it, which is very Doom-y. They know what they're doing
I got a Flakker as well. I'm torn between which is best. The first one kills me less I suppose
|
|
gamecat
New Member
Alone Again with the Dawn Coming Up
Posts: 618
|
Post by gamecat on May 24, 2022 10:00:56 GMT
Hellwalker is S rank, Flakker is.. not. It used to be good in BL2 but got a bit of a nerf in 3.
|
|
|
|
Post by Aunt Alison on May 24, 2022 11:07:10 GMT
I think that probably makes less of a difference where I am at the moment. I just like that how it functions (explodeyly)
One of the things this has over something like Diablo for me is that it's actually a lot fun to just try out and use various weapons because they're functionally so different, especially lengendaries, and it's not just purely stats
The Hellwalker is by far the best weapon I'm currently holding but I still have fun switching to the others. It's actually so powerful that I forgot I've got Iron Bear sometimes but I still like to pop him and then play a game of who can kill the enemies the fastest
|
|
|
|
Post by Aunt Alison on May 25, 2022 17:14:49 GMT
Those Takedown missions you unlock after the campaign are really difficult
I'm level 50 and they're wrecking me
|
|
