EMarkM
Junior Member
Well, quite...
Posts: 2,150
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Post by EMarkM on Jun 13, 2022 10:08:32 GMT
I'd honestly prefer to spend five minutes in a Bethesda world than any amount of time at all in the Witcher games. Wow. Yep, sorry - hate everything about the Witcher. Two main points - I dislike not being able to design my own character in RPGs, with just a few exceptions, and I found the whole thing to be "ooh, let's make an adult game and appeal to all those young male gamers out there...ooh, we can be so edgy and put all this rude or clever stuff in...ooh, these decisions have REAL consequences..." No. The games are childish and simplistic and do not allow me to imagine my own world and story which, funnily enough, the Bethesda games, and those related to them, do.
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Post by rhaegyr on Jun 13, 2022 10:18:01 GMT
Nothing really edgy or childish about quests such as the Bloody Baron but each to their own I guess.
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スコットランド
Junior Member
Delicious gruel
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Post by スコットランド on Jun 13, 2022 10:19:23 GMT
Yep, sorry - hate everything about the Witcher. Two main points - I dislike not being able to design my own character in RPGs, with just a few exceptions, and I found the whole thing to be "ooh, let's make an adult game and appeal to all those young male gamers out there...ooh, we can be so edgy and put all this rude or clever stuff in...ooh, these decisions have REAL consequences..." No. The games are childish and simplistic and do not allow me to imagine my own world and story which, funnily enough, the Bethesda games, and those related to them, do. Each to their own but found the writing in the Witcher (unsurprisingly) to be light years ahead and the "edgy" stuff is probably linked to it being based on actual novels. Maybe not directly comparable games as you're playing a real character in the Witcher.
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Post by Vandelay on Jun 13, 2022 10:24:05 GMT
The Witcher 3's gameplay is fairly poor on most fronts. The combat is really uninteresting and becomes trivial if you buff up you shield ability. The RPGing of upgrading your character is kind of flat, with skill trees not really featuring anything that is of interest. The stories aren't even that great, with Bloody Baron being the highlight, but not much else beyond that. It is flashy and has great presentation, but I don't really care about anything that is going on.
Having said that, I still would rather spend an hour or two in The Witcher 3 than any Bethesda game. I just find everything about them really boring and I think I've managed to spend more time modding Skyrim than I've ever actually been able to spend playing it.
Space RPG sounds fantastic and right up my street, but I just don't see Bethesda being able to pull it off in any interesting kind of way. Hopefully they will get Starfield out and then Obsedian can make a good version of the game afterwards.
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Tuffty
Junior Member
Posts: 3,602
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Post by Tuffty on Jun 13, 2022 11:37:10 GMT
Can't make any comparisons to NMS, but watched it with a profound sense of 'Yep, Fallout in space, got it'. For some that's exactly what they want, but for me its just not worth the hype, much as I love space exploration and all. The though of there being over 1000 planets to explore is another of those Cyberpunk esque promises that the game can be just too big for its own good. Time will tell if its even as interesting as Outer Worlds was.
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Post by Duffking on Jun 13, 2022 11:42:42 GMT
Ultimately it'll live and die on the quests, which isn't a great sign with the 1000 planets thing. I expect a huge amount of that to be procedural/radiant stuff which was the worst of Skyrim/FO4. Not to meantion both Skyrim/FO4 were a both massive step backwards in terms of quest design. Interesting stuff was very few and far between, with most of it just being "help, my X got Y'd by some Z's, please go here and kill 10 necromancers/bandits/super mutants in a cave/tomb/building".
In Oblivion it was like "some women are robbing and blackmailing men, so here's a quest where you let them seduce you, kidnap you and then take them out in the act", whereas if that quest existed in Skyrim it'd be "some women robbed and blackmailed me, please go to this cave and stab them all". I remember Oblivion having tons of cool quests just randomly strewn about like the painting one, but Skyrim/FO4 had like... nothing. Even the Dark Brotherhood sucked in Skyrim by comparison.
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Post by JuniorFE on Jun 13, 2022 11:44:28 GMT
The though of there being over 1000 planets to explore is another of those Cyberpunk esque promises that the game can be just too big for its own good. Time will tell if its even as interesting as Outer Worlds was. (Seemingly) overambitious promises like that are what makes me feel that this one will either be a legit masterpiece that overshadows any flaws with how great it is... or an overhyped flop (post-release patches notwithstanding, of course). Like, there's no middle ground where it ends up decent-to-good but not groundbreaking, it's a 50/50 shot between "amazing" and "mess"
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Post by Vandelay on Jun 13, 2022 11:47:59 GMT
I think, and I've really just worked this out, the problem is that it actually isn't Fallout in space. It actually just looks like Fallout, but with a few spacey bits.
The dream was that this was going to be Elite with Bethesda/Microsoft money. My actual expectation though was that we would at least be getting a space game and that we would be spending at least as much time on a space ship as we would be on planets. Perhaps I haven't followed the narrative of the game and this was never the case, but spending most of the video watching it being about shooting space pirates on moons and fairly barren planets was not what I was hoping that this game would be about.
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Post by Jambowayoh on Jun 13, 2022 11:57:36 GMT
But then tbf we've seen a snippet of the game and as it's a Bethesda game you generally do what you like so I mean let's give it a benefit of the doubt. I think it's incredibly difficult to communicate the experiences you can have in these massive games, sure you can give an outline and talk about the main thread as it were but I think it's fair to wait for some actual hands on previews before we dissect the game based on 10 minutes of video.
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Post by simple on Jun 13, 2022 12:06:57 GMT
It will be interesting to see how they intend to fill 1000 planets and how many of those end up essentially being single dungeons
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MolarAm🔵
Full Member
Bad at games
Posts: 6,839
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Post by MolarAm🔵 on Jun 13, 2022 12:10:15 GMT
It's not Fallout in space. Fallout in space was (for better or worse) The Outer Worlds.
Anyway, aside from the extremely wrong opinions some people have about the quality of Witcher 3 writing, I get the appeal of "being able to imagine your own world and story".
Or rather, I get that appeal in theory. In practice, the story I create for myself in Bethesda games is, for a large part, trite, uninteresting shit. I can do anything and everything better than everyone else in the world, I'm worshipped by dead-eyed robot people who I've barely even met, and every single problem is just waiting for me to come fix it.
The "everything is your problem" thing makes sense in the Witcher games (you're a monster hunter, it's your job!), but it does not in most Bethesda RPGs, which are largely populated by characterless simpletons who cannot do anything for themselves. They just stand there, waiting for the hero to walk by.
That might be ok if the writing was good, but it isn't. There's no nuance and no meaningful choices. Aside from that, the combat is basic at best, and there's no reward for exploration aside from random, scaled loot that doesn't feel special at all. Sure you can create your own character (except in FO4, weirdly), but mostly it makes no difference at all.
Despite all that, I did enjoy Skyrim. But I don't understand the undying love that people still have for the product of these developers, not when there's so much else out there now. They're not the only game in town anymore!
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MolarAm🔵
Full Member
Bad at games
Posts: 6,839
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Post by MolarAm🔵 on Jun 13, 2022 12:10:51 GMT
All that being said, it's cool if people like them. I don't really understand it, but not everything has to be for me.
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Post by simple on Jun 13, 2022 12:21:52 GMT
I think the glory of Skyrim is that its one of the best big places in gaming. It feels like a huge kingdom and that gives a great sense of freedom and exploration.
That it often ends up with uncovering lots of formulaic dungeons and “go here and kill x” quests is secondary for me because its the place that draws me in. I’ve said in other threads before but I never fast travel in Skyrim because the overworld is the place to be.
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sport✅
Junior Member
notice me senpai
I want to claim my tits
Posts: 2,315
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Post by sport✅ on Jun 13, 2022 12:25:36 GMT
FFS FG, just get over Skyrim already!!!
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MolarAm🔵
Full Member
Bad at games
Posts: 6,839
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Post by MolarAm🔵 on Jun 13, 2022 12:28:29 GMT
Yeah, that was the best thing about it. They do very good scenery! I liked running around shooting deer and things with my bow, good times.
I just wish they could design convincing humans to the same level.
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Post by anthonyuk on Jun 13, 2022 12:47:53 GMT
When we have animation and combat in videogames as detailed and fluid as TLOU2, regardless of scale I don't think there's an excuse to have animation and general combat looking like it's plucked from a mobile game 5 years ago.
It sucked me right out of Morrowind, same with Skyrim and now 20 years later despite all the ambition appears to be doing the same here.
As someone else said, there must be a core team who's worked on this engine since the start, who's reluctant or unable to move onto something new.
But when they're clearly quick cutting the gameplay reveal when showing the creature combat to hide the jank.. rather than show off how dynamic and interesting that might be, it's ridiculous.
Bethesda are like the M. Night Shyamalan of the videogames industry. For sure they captured lighting in a bottle once and captured the imagination of millions. Unfortunately ever since they've failed to match it. Refusing to move forward, sticking to what they know and what worked 2 decades ago with diminishing returns every time.
That said, I still hope we get the videogame equivalent of Unbreakable and not Bethesda's "The Happening"
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hedben
Junior Member
Formerly: hedben2013
Posts: 2,201
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Post by hedben on Jun 13, 2022 13:00:43 GMT
It will be interesting to see how they intend to fill 1000 planets and how many of those end up essentially being single dungeons Yeah my money's on most of the planets having a landing zone that feels like a Fallout-style settlement, maybe one other curated area, and a whole planet that's been procedurally generated and then locked down.
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Post by simple on Jun 13, 2022 13:02:32 GMT
Am I the only one who liked The Happening?
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MolarAm🔵
Full Member
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Posts: 6,839
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Post by MolarAm🔵 on Jun 13, 2022 13:04:37 GMT
The Happening was fun in a "what the fuck was he even thinking" kind of way. It's not a good movie by any stretch, but I could see how someone might enjoy it.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2022 13:16:36 GMT
Is that the one where Marky Mark looks confused for two hours?
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MolarAm🔵
Full Member
Bad at games
Posts: 6,839
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Post by MolarAm🔵 on Jun 13, 2022 13:18:03 GMT
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Post by Aunt Alison on Jun 13, 2022 13:20:58 GMT
But then tbf we've seen a snippet of the game and as it's a Bethesda game you generally do what you like so I mean let's give it a benefit of the doubt. I think it's incredibly difficult to communicate the experiences you can have in these massive games, sure you can give an outline and talk about the main thread as it were but I think it's fair to wait for some actual hands on previews before we dissect the game based on 10 minutes of video. I'm playing Fallout 3 at the moment and it was very obvious that, while they were talking Starfield up, it looks exactly like Fallout 3. It'll be the same old thing with a few new system that sounds great but are pretty basic menuing. There were so many jump cuts in that 10 minute video to try and make it look exciting as well. I don't think they showed even one full combat encounter. I'm willing to bet the actual gameplay will be very slow and clunky
With regards to The Witcher, I agree with Mark. The biggest selling point of Bethesda RPGs is that they offer you a blank slate and world to exist in like no other games I'm aware off. It's easy to accept the poor quality becuase they still offer something very unique. There's nowhere else to get that experience. I don't like Geralt so I don't want to play that and I don't want to spend time in that world. You can't really ignore those things and enjoy it anyway
I actually think if the games were better, they'd probably lose some of their appeal. The better the game, the less need there is for your own imagination. Fallout 3 leaves a lot to your imagination and I'm always fleshing things out myself as I go along, especially when they don't make much sense in the game. It forces you to do that by being a bit pants
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Post by Aunt Alison on Jun 13, 2022 13:23:07 GMT
In Oblivion it was like "some women are robbing and blackmailing men, so here's a quest where you let them seduce you, kidnap you and then take them out in the act" lol nerds
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Post by Jambowayoh on Jun 13, 2022 13:23:17 GMT
Doesn't like Witcher 3 nor Elden Ring...got ourselves a deviant here.
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Post by simple on Jun 13, 2022 13:26:19 GMT
I did love Oblivion, its only two flaws for me were the level scaling and the shortage of voice actors for npcs
And horse armour dlc obviously. Although that would probably seem like chunky substantial extra content these days.
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MolarAm🔵
Full Member
Bad at games
Posts: 6,839
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Post by MolarAm🔵 on Jun 13, 2022 13:27:07 GMT
Well I might just go back to playing text adventures then. I can just imagine the graphics, how great is that?
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Post by Aunt Alison on Jun 13, 2022 13:27:13 GMT
Doesn't like Witcher 3 nor Elden Ring...got ourselves a deviant here. I like Doom. What else matters!
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2022 13:27:30 GMT
TBF, Beth spent their entire VO budget on Patrick Stewart, so you can understand why everyone else was voiced by three no names.
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Post by simple on Jun 13, 2022 13:28:29 GMT
The Happening was fun in a "what the fuck was he even thinking" kind of way. It's not a good movie by any stretch, but I could see how someone might enjoy it. I liked that it was mysterious. Sure the overall effect was Stephen King tv movie but I enjoyed it being such an intangible threat and the way it passes without explanation. Its probably my second favourite film of his.
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Post by Aunt Alison on Jun 13, 2022 13:28:47 GMT
Well I might just go back to playing text adventures then. I can just imagine the graphics, how great is that? Fallout offers enough to make a fun interactive experience while still leaving enough to significantly use your imagination
Text adventures don't do that
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