zephro
Junior Member
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Post by zephro on Oct 19, 2024 12:13:52 GMT
Well I'm doing something wrong. My steam account is old enough that I created it when steam was merely the patching system for Counter Strike, but I've only got 440 games. A small TV used to cost so much we had to rent them but as we bought more and got better at making them, the price came down. I’m not sure why people always handwave away economies of scale and process improvements for video games. Economies of scale are basically why everyone is bitching about though? The actual price of games was static (e.g. decreasing in real terms) or decreasing for decades. Which was economies of scale, a bigger market etc. all at work. The literal reason everyone is acting like they're shocked is economies of scale and process improvements. The wheels have come off the model though. The rate of increase of the cost of making a game is no longer matched by the rate of increase of the audience, which is basically what sustained games staying the same price for so long. The potential sales base was increasing faster than the cost of making them. So now that it's actually adjusting back up, everyone is acting shocked because they got used to the other way. |
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Post by Bill in the rain on Oct 19, 2024 12:16:46 GMT
Apparently I have 459 on epic, despite never having bought anything on there. So those are a good deal cheaper than back in the 90s.
Then again, back in the 80s or 90s, maybe the majority of games I played were pirated from mates at school/uni. Whereas these days there's no reason to do that.
There were also just a lot less games. Even if games were 50, you'd probably only have one games machine, and you could keep up with the release schedule of most of the big games or games that looked interesting. Whereas that'd be impossible these days.
PS/ Expert work on derailing the discussion gremmi
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Aunty Treats
Junior Member
Delivering tasty treats to the townsfolk
Posts: 1,039
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Post by Aunty Treats on Oct 19, 2024 13:06:40 GMT
Well I'm doing something wrong. My steam account is old enough that I created it when steam was merely the patching system for Counter Strike, but I've only got 440 games. A small TV used to cost so much we had to rent them but as we bought more and got better at making them, the price came down. I’m not sure why people always handwave away economies of scale and process improvements for video games. Economies of scale are basically why everyone is bitching about though? The actual price of games was static (e.g. decreasing in real terms) or decreasing for decades. Which was economies of scale, a bigger market etc. all at work. The literal reason everyone is acting like they're shocked is economies of scale and process improvements. The wheels have come off the model though. The rate of increase of the cost of making a game is no longer matched by the rate of increase of the audience, which is basically what sustained games staying the same price for so long. The potential sales base was increasing faster than the cost of making them. So now that it's actually adjusting back up, everyone is acting shocked because they got used to the other way. Ignores MTX, DLC, special editions and everything else and that pubs are still raking it in. Also it's AAA pubs pushing the costs up because the only way they know how to sell games is graphics and aggressive marketing. They created the problem that we're expected to now pay for, which will just make it worse
It's not just about the upfront cost of buying a game, it's the price increase on top of all the monetisation that has crept in over the years. The price of games had already increased with deluxe/special/collector edition going for well above the £50 or whatever it was even outside of that anyway. They've set a new price for the standard, not day one edition of a game
I don't really get people trying to be understanding of AAA publishers and their setting of prices. They're very antagonistic towards their customers and want every last penny out of you, going as far as exploiting every psychological trick they can find
As far as I'm concerned, they need to find a way to produce an attractive game at a reasonable price. That's their job. If they can't, that isn't my problem. I don't think I'd miss them
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Post by quadfather on Oct 19, 2024 13:15:11 GMT
These nostalgia posts are reminding me of an image, billions of years ago when I was in secondary school and a mate handed me a spectrum tape to borrow. It was the warlock of Firetop mountain. I was so excited to play it, it was ridiculous.
I can still see that tape in my minds eye.
Awesome memory!
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zephro
Junior Member
Posts: 3,009
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Post by zephro on Oct 19, 2024 13:44:43 GMT
Well I'm doing something wrong. My steam account is old enough that I created it when steam was merely the patching system for Counter Strike, but I've only got 440 games. Economies of scale are basically why everyone is bitching about though? The actual price of games was static (e.g. decreasing in real terms) or decreasing for decades. Which was economies of scale, a bigger market etc. all at work. The literal reason everyone is acting like they're shocked is economies of scale and process improvements. The wheels have come off the model though. The rate of increase of the cost of making a game is no longer matched by the rate of increase of the audience, which is basically what sustained games staying the same price for so long. The potential sales base was increasing faster than the cost of making them. So now that it's actually adjusting back up, everyone is acting shocked because they got used to the other way. Ignores MTX, DLC, special editions and everything else and that pubs are still raking it in. Also it's AAA pubs pushing the costs up because the only way they know how to sell games is graphics and aggressive marketing. They created the problem that we're expected to now pay for, which will just make it worse
It's not just about the upfront cost of buying a game, it's the price increase on top of all the monetisation that has crept in over the years. The price of games had already increased with deluxe/special/collector edition going for well above the £50 or whatever it was even outside of that anyway. They've set a new price for the standard, not day one edition of a game
I don't really get people trying to be understanding of AAA publishers and their setting of prices. They're very antagonistic towards their customers and want every last penny out of you, going as far as exploiting every psychological trick they can find
As far as I'm concerned, they need to find a way to produce an attractive game at a reasonable price. That's their job. If they can't, that isn't my problem. I don't think I'd miss them
I think you're mistaking a literal description of the economics at work with "trying to be understanding". Though "reasonable" for price and "attractive" are doing a lot of heavy lifting there. Reasonable varies by person, and more generally the entire market. Attractive again can vary massively, gamers keep demanding more graphics and shitting on games with bad graphics... They're literally hitting the point that happens with all engineering where you only get incremental gains for massive amounts of more cost. The only tech on the horizon that's even vaguely going to help with that is generative AI, to put the massive amount of artists required for a game out of work. It's just basic economics. When a technology improvement plateaus in the sense of the returns on investment starts to go backwards, which is inevitable until the next "jump". The only way for prices to come down is to basically increase supply by making the market bigger. The same thing has happened with top end phones, topping a grand nowadays. The market is fully saturated so it's not growing and making a phone better than the last generation is only tiny little improvements. And buying collector's editions is still a mug's game. |
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rftp
New Member
Posts: 702
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Post by rftp on Oct 19, 2024 14:07:05 GMT
Just wait until every single game costs £10 a month instead of £70 once. Then £20, then £30...
Edit: not a response to anyone's post, just to the thread in general.
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Post by Jambowayoh on Oct 19, 2024 14:13:37 GMT
I think i read somewhere that there's still a surprisingly large amount of ps4 owners who still haven't moved over to next gen.
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Aunty Treats
Junior Member
Delivering tasty treats to the townsfolk
Posts: 1,039
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Post by Aunty Treats on Oct 19, 2024 14:15:43 GMT
Ignores MTX, DLC, special editions and everything else and that pubs are still raking it in. Also it's AAA pubs pushing the costs up because the only way they know how to sell games is graphics and aggressive marketing. They created the problem that we're expected to now pay for, which will just make it worse
It's not just about the upfront cost of buying a game, it's the price increase on top of all the monetisation that has crept in over the years. The price of games had already increased with deluxe/special/collector edition going for well above the £50 or whatever it was even outside of that anyway. They've set a new price for the standard, not day one edition of a game
I don't really get people trying to be understanding of AAA publishers and their setting of prices. They're very antagonistic towards their customers and want every last penny out of you, going as far as exploiting every psychological trick they can find
As far as I'm concerned, they need to find a way to produce an attractive game at a reasonable price. That's their job. If they can't, that isn't my problem. I don't think I'd miss them
I think you're mistaking a literal description of the economics at work with "trying to be understanding". Though "reasonable" for price and "attractive" are doing a lot of heavy lifting there. Reasonable varies by person, and more generally the entire market. Attractive again can vary massively, gamers keep demanding more graphics and shitting on games with bad graphics... They're literally hitting the point that happens with all engineering where you only get incremental gains for massive amounts of more cost. The only tech on the horizon that's even vaguely going to help with that is generative AI, to put the massive amount of artists required for a game out of work. It's just basic economics. When a technology improvement plateaus in the sense of the returns on investment starts to go backwards, which is inevitable until the next "jump". The only way for prices to come down is to basically increase supply by making the market bigger. The same thing has happened with top end phones, topping a grand nowadays. The market is fully saturated so it's not growing and making a phone better than the last generation is only tiny little improvements. And buying collector's editions is still a mug's game. It is but they do all they can to make people feel like they're missing out if they don't buy the most expensive edition and it's not just rich people with more money than sense
The idea that prices have remained static is a myth- they've been gradually increasing through monetisation. It's pubs that keep pushing this idea that game prices have remained the same
You're right that it is unsustainable- because they will never stop. Paying more won't solve anything
Pubs also set the expectations. People want better graphics because that is what has always been pushed. People also want better stories, voice acting, enemy AI but we rarely get those things and people are still buying. Nintendo dropped out of the arms race and are still doing well. They went the innovative route and that has worked out really well for them. People complain about the graphics on the Switch but they buy the games anyway because they're great games
The prices are going up because they want more profit, not because they're struggling
Ultimately a video game is only worth so much to me. I don't care what the production values are or how amazing a game is, I wouldn't pay £100 for one. It's a hobby
Obviously we're coming at this from two different places. But personally, as a customer, I don't accept that I or anyone should be paying more
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Post by dangerousdave on Oct 19, 2024 14:28:14 GMT
Just wait until every single game costs £10 a month instead of £70 once. Then £20, then £30... Edit: not a response to anyone's post, just to the thread in general. That will be entirely my fault. |
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rftp
New Member
Posts: 702
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Post by rftp on Oct 19, 2024 14:34:14 GMT
Just wait until every single game costs £10 a month instead of £70 once. Then £20, then £30... Edit: not a response to anyone's post, just to the thread in general. That will be entirely my fault. You are responsible for capitalism's subscription model? I mean, I know he seems like a good bloke, but this is beyond the pale! Get him!  |
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nazo
Junior Member
Posts: 1,303
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Post by nazo on Oct 19, 2024 14:41:59 GMT
I think i read somewhere that there's still a surprisingly large amount of ps4 owners who still haven't moved over to next gen. Yeah I haven’t, not sure I’ll ever bother unless it dies. I don’t care about shiny new graphics and there’s still plenty of old and even new stuff worth playing. |
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Post by JuniorFE on Oct 19, 2024 14:46:44 GMT
Just wait until every single game costs £10 a month instead of £70 once. Then £20, then £30... Edit: not a response to anyone's post, just to the thread in general. That might actually be better depending on how it's implemented and what the games contain, if you can finish a game in a month or two you're suddenly paying only £20 per game |
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rftp
New Member
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Post by rftp on Oct 19, 2024 16:27:46 GMT
Just wait until every single game costs £10 a month instead of £70 once. Then £20, then £30... Edit: not a response to anyone's post, just to the thread in general. That might actually be better depending on how it's implemented and what the games contain, if you can finish a game in a month or two you're suddenly paying only £20 per game You will only have finished the chapter, bud. |
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Post by dfunked on Oct 19, 2024 16:29:35 GMT
Subscribe to the next tier to get the second chapter two days early!
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Rich
Junior Member
Posts: 1,988 
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Post by Rich on Oct 19, 2024 16:58:35 GMT
I think i read somewhere that there's still a surprisingly large amount of ps4 owners who still haven't moved over to next gen. 🙋🏻 Barring a new job/decent pay rise or a significant price drop, I don't see me moving on from my PS4 before this generation ends tbh. |
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Post by Wizzard_Ook on Oct 19, 2024 17:21:52 GMT
I could do with not buying games day one. Games go on sale pretty quickly and you could easily buy 2/3 games for a full price game.
But I have no will power.
Veilguard is out next week. Could easily wait. But…
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Post by Jambowayoh on Oct 19, 2024 18:29:17 GMT
I think i read somewhere that there's still a surprisingly large amount of ps4 owners who still haven't moved over to next gen. 🙋🏻 Barring a new job/decent pay rise or a significant price drop, I don't see me moving on from my PS4 before this generation ends tbh. The hilarious thing will be that the next gen will be dominated by ps5 cross gen games. |
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Post by Bill in the rain on Oct 20, 2024 9:30:14 GMT
Just wait until every single game costs £10 a month instead of £70 once. Then £20, then £30... Edit: not a response to anyone's post, just to the thread in general. That might actually be better depending on how it's implemented and what the games contain, if you can finish a game in a month or two you're suddenly paying only £20 per game This is the new version of that 'rented game from Blockbusters and need to get it finished before I have to return it' feeling people were nostalgic about a few pages back.
The couple of times I've signed up to something like Gamepass or Origin Access for a free/cheap month it's just ended up feeling like stressful work trying to get the game I wanted to play finished before needing to pay for another month.
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zagibu
Junior Member
Posts: 1,953
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Post by zagibu on Oct 20, 2024 9:45:27 GMT
Why a monthly period, though? Isn't the future pay-as-you-go? Amazon Prime Gaming, 0.001 £ per second.
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rftp
New Member
Posts: 702
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Post by rftp on Oct 20, 2024 9:53:22 GMT
Why not both? Subscribe for the client, pay for timed access to game via the client!
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Post by skalpadda on Oct 20, 2024 9:56:21 GMT
I'm imagining an in-game overlay with a taximeter ticking up. Probably right in the middle of the screen.
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rftp
New Member
Posts: 702
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Post by rftp on Oct 20, 2024 9:56:49 GMT
Now we're capitalisming!
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Post by skalpadda on Oct 20, 2024 9:58:37 GMT
You could probably pay to have it moved to the edge of the screen for ten minutes at a time. Or watch an ad if you're poor.
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apollo
Junior Member
Posts: 1,712
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Post by apollo on Oct 20, 2024 11:28:01 GMT
with the taximeter on the screen, what about other options like pay to reload your guns (some EA drone wanted this or at least suggested it) Also what about resolution tier you want for the game. 4k is now 7.99, turn off chroma shit and motion blur - that would be 3.99 each
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zagibu
Junior Member
Posts: 1,953
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Post by zagibu on Oct 20, 2024 11:28:14 GMT
To be honest, it's quite surprising that there are not more ads in games.
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Post by Jambowayoh on Oct 20, 2024 11:29:09 GMT
To be honest, it's quite surprising that there are not more ads in games. Why would you invoke the dark text?! |
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Post by Chopsen on Oct 20, 2024 11:41:39 GMT
To be honest, it's quite surprising that there are not more ads in games. Agree, but imagine the nerd rage that would be unleashed on the first movers to try this. Gamers are awful people to have as customers |
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Post by skalpadda on Oct 20, 2024 12:09:17 GMT
There was at least one attempt (years ago) with some racing game adding billboards for real companies/products, and I vaguely recall there being some others.
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apollo
Junior Member
Posts: 1,712
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Post by apollo on Oct 20, 2024 12:12:23 GMT
There was at least one attempt (years ago) with some racing game adding billboards for real companies/products, and I vaguely recall there being some others. Burnout games - maybe paradise or the one before that |
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Post by Jambowayoh on Oct 20, 2024 12:32:19 GMT
Battlefield Hardline had billboard ads too and the NBA 2K games had ads literally play as breaks a couple of years back.
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A small TV used to cost so much we had to rent them but as we bought more and got better at making them, the price came down. 
