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Post by skalpadda on Feb 18, 2024 6:34:27 GMT
Oh, I had no idea the 4070 Super existed. Seems to add ~600 over the standard 4070 here, which isn't much more, but that was already in "I can afford it but I'll feel like a filthy hedonist"-territory. Going higher might move me into "I'm a class traitor and deserve to be put against the wall when the revolution comes". If it's making the 4070 drop it hasn't happened here yet, judging by price history, but maybe it's worth waiting a week or two. I'm too hardware illiterate to know what effect a 128bit memory bus has in practice. It's apparently smaller than on my current card, which seems odd given there's 4 years between them. Quickly looking at benchmarks, the 4060 at least does a bit better in actual games than the 3060, so the smaller memory bus can't be a complete disaster, and the 4060 Ti does a good chunk better than the non-Ti version. Even if that's disappointing to a reviewer in terms of generational progress/price difference it might not matter so much for me. Like it might not be worth the money from a 3060 to a 4060 or from either to a 4060 Ti, but I'm upgrading from a *much* older card and I don't upgrade often. My criteria are more along the lines of "what's available now, good enough, at a price I'm okay with".
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minimatt
Junior Member
hyper mediocrity
Posts: 1,696
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Post by minimatt on Feb 18, 2024 7:26:18 GMT
re your last paragraph you're absolutely right. I'm in the same boat, looking to upgrade a 10 series card this year, and unless I can get an extremely good price on a 30 series, I'll end up getting a 40xx (or put it off for another year)
by any real world metric, 40 series cards are better than their predecessors. Too expensive, but they're what we've got
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Post by stuz359 on Feb 18, 2024 8:25:01 GMT
I could use some graphics card advice as I'm pretty clueless these days. I've been putting this off for ages, even when rebuilding the entire rest of the PC last fall, but think it's time to stop being a cheapskate. Prices are stupid here though (~20% higher than the UK at a glance) and nothing is ever on sale, so I'd rather not pay more than I have to. What I need: Something that will play games okay at 1080 for a couple of years. Yes, I'm a dinosaur, but I'm fine with my current screen. If I upgrade any time soon it will probably be to a decent 1440 rather than anything super fancy. A stable 60FPS is fine performance in my book. I've kind of ruled out AMD. All their cards I glanced at seem power hungry, which usually means more noisy and annoying. So, the range of cards I'm considering: RTX 4060. Costs ~3800SEK. (I'm including price just as a rough relative comparison between the cards. Divide by 11 for £, but that's not important). RTX 4060 Ti 8GB. ~5000SEK. RTX 4060 Ti 16GB. ~5700SEK. RTX 4070 12GB. ~7200SEK. Higher end cards are just indefensibly expensive and seem like they'd be overkill for my gaming habits anyway.
All of these would be big upgrades over my current card, but I'm instinctively a bit suspicious of the 8 GB models. Some games are already close to gobbling up the 6 gigs I have now, so just 2 more doesn't seem reassuring even in the short term.
I'm leaning towards the 16GB version of the 4060 Ti. It's comfortably within my budget and seems like it would be good enough, but I could stretch to the 4070 if there's a very good reason. I'd really appreciate some advice/opinions, as I haven't kept up with hardware stuff at all for the past decade or so.
It really depends on the use case. For myself, I just wanted a temporary upgrade, really to get more modern rendering methods, and having a card that supports mesh shaders (I quite fancy being able to play Alan Wake 2). A 4060 seemed like the best fit, mostly doing 1080/1440 gaming, because it's temporary I wasn't that worried about the VRAM. If I had the headroom in my budget, I would have gone gone for a 4070. My concern about the 4060ti was a value proposition, £100 more than 4060 but not THAT much more performance. I think looking down the stack, the 4070 is the sweet spot in terms of price to performance ratio, but if you're only playing at 1080p and only for a couple of years, is it overkill? That's between you and your wallet. |
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ekz
New Member
O_o
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Post by ekz on Feb 18, 2024 8:42:51 GMT
I have a 4060, happy enough with it (also a 1080p gamer). Yet to have less than 60fps and with DLSS I can generally push great settings and still bat well above the 60fps threshold. Was quite the leap from my old 2060.
The cost to go from a 4060 to a 4060ti here made it stupid, so I just bit the bullet.
Have a ryzen 5600 and 16gb of ram so not exactly cutting edge elsewhere in the pc.
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Post by Vandelay on Feb 18, 2024 9:43:01 GMT
4060 I would think would be absolutely fine at 1080p. I doubt you would need to go any higher than that. 4070 would likely give you a bit more future proofing, but if you are only planning on using it for a couple of years then it makes sense to just get what will tide you over that period.
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Post by Fake_Blood on Feb 18, 2024 9:49:13 GMT
We all feel dirty after spending so much money btw, but the market is what it is, and at some point you need to upgrade.
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Post by stixxuk on Feb 18, 2024 10:22:11 GMT
Finding PC gaming a bit annoying right now.
I've got a moderate to high spec PC but i have found so many games to be less smooth than on console due to "stutter".
One of the worst examples had been Ori and the Will of the Wisps. It's a really beautiful game especially on my ultrawide qd-oled but the stuttering is ridiculous.
Not sure if it's an AMD thing or just a modern PC thing but it is annoying to have stuff like this when you've spent more on a graphics card alone than the cost of a console.
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crashV👀d👀
Junior Member
not just a game anymore...
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Post by crashV👀d👀 on Feb 18, 2024 10:31:12 GMT
I'm guessing it will be along the lines of
4060/ti - high 1080 with lower settings 2k
4070/ti - mid/high 2k with lower/mid settings 4k
4080/ti - high 2k and mid/high settings 4k
Since you're 1080 and for only a few years I'd maybe go 4060/ti adjusting for prices available. The supers slot in with small spec bumps to bus, cores and vram so should perform better overall. The mem bus on the 4060 is a bit poop but depending on your jump is probably a non issue.
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Post by stuz359 on Feb 18, 2024 19:01:40 GMT
Well installed with no issues, I didn't blow up my PC and all seems to be well. Everything's quiet as well suggesting no issues. As I'm typing this on my PC, seems to be a good sign. Next step is probably tech demo's followed by a quick run of Cyberpunk. Basically gone without RT or DLSS for now so looking forward to it.
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Post by Vandelay on Feb 18, 2024 19:03:46 GMT
Nice. Cyberpunk with all the bells and whistles really does look next gen (as does Alan Wake 2). Enjoy the shinies!
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Post by Fake_Blood on Feb 18, 2024 19:37:10 GMT
They kind of stopped making (free) tech demos. I used to love those old nvidia and ATi demos.
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Post by stuz359 on Feb 18, 2024 21:00:16 GMT
I also added, I've been meaning to do this for about a year, but since I had the case open, a PCIE card for expanding NVMe storage for four slots. Only have the one 1tb NVMe device, so far, but the potential to add three more which is quite cool, especially as you can get a decent 1tb NVMe drive for around £65 now.
It's interesting that I only bought a XSX for backwards compatibility, It's a weird thing, I love the Dragon Age games, but on PC they only control via m & k, the UI has really small text, so in my mind the best way to experience them is using the 360 versions. I'm wondering now if XENIA is complete enough to actually just use that to play legacy 360 titles. I own them so I'm not going to feel guilty about it. There is probably a handful of games that never received a PC port too, Fable 2, GOW2 + 3, Lost odyssey, Blue Dragon.
I also quite look forward to checking out Rpcs3. I find it weird that an entire generation of games is consigned to be streamed for all time. Killzone 2 + 3, all of the Resistance games, all of the MotorStorm games (love those games) and a few others.
Dolphins weird, kind of think that's been fairly robust for more than a few years now.
By look forward to, I mean not actually do because life gets in the way.
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Post by stixxuk on Feb 18, 2024 21:15:00 GMT
This Nvidia auto HDR thing sounds cool.
Reckon if next gen Nvidia is better value I'll be swapping out this 7900 XT. It seemed a smart buy at the time but I've just found myself endlessly jealous of DLSS and ray tracing, and now this HDR thing too. The FOMO is real!
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Post by stuz359 on Feb 18, 2024 21:45:32 GMT
This Nvidia auto HDR thing sounds cool. Reckon if next gen Nvidia is better value I'll be swapping out this 7900 XT. It seemed a smart buy at the time but I've just found myself endlessly jealous of DLSS and ray tracing, and now this HDR thing too. The FOMO is real! Always find it weird if someone stays loyal to a corporation. Objectively, Nvidia products are better value for the feature set they have. If AMD came out for a better feature set than Nvidia, I would switch, but AMD didn't enter my thinking because DLSS and Frame Gen are proper feature tech that genuinely enhance the products. AMD have a strong CPU product and I am probably going to switch in my upcoming upgrade, but GPU wise, they are so far behind Nvidia. Raw performance, maybe not, but in value added and feature set, definitely. |
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crashV👀d👀
Junior Member
not just a game anymore...
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Post by crashV👀d👀 on Feb 19, 2024 0:08:35 GMT
They seem to be forever playing catch-up and as soon as they've nearly a parity, Nvidia drops the next shit they've been working on.
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Post by skalpadda on Feb 19, 2024 4:54:55 GMT
Thanks for the input everyone, spent a little time reading up on things myself as well. I'll probably give it a week or two and maybe try to keep an eye on prices just in case. The jump from a 4060/ti to the 4070 looks worth it in absolute terms, but it would ease my conscience if I could at least shave a little off the price. There's nothing I'm about to play right now that demands an immediate upgrade, after all. We all feel dirty after spending so much money btw, but the market is what it is, and at some point you need to upgrade. Yeah, but I get more anxious than I should and feel a little dumb about it sometimes. I used to be a lot poorer and that mentality of always having to carefully justify any spending has just stuck, sometimes to the point where I freak out and put off buying things that are both necessary and affordable, because it would have been a lot of money for me 15 years ago. |
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Post by stixxuk on Feb 19, 2024 7:28:34 GMT
This Nvidia auto HDR thing sounds cool. Reckon if next gen Nvidia is better value I'll be swapping out this 7900 XT. It seemed a smart buy at the time but I've just found myself endlessly jealous of DLSS and ray tracing, and now this HDR thing too. The FOMO is real! Always find it weird if someone stays loyal to a corporation. Objectively, Nvidia products are better value for the feature set they have. If AMD came out for a better feature set than Nvidia, I would switch, but AMD didn't enter my thinking because DLSS and Frame Gen are proper feature tech that genuinely enhance the products. AMD have a strong CPU product and I am probably going to switch in my upcoming upgrade, but GPU wise, they are so far behind Nvidia. Raw performance, maybe not, but in value added and feature set, definitely. Hey, I didn't buy it out of brand loyalty but because I was hearing a lot about RT not being a big deal, and not needing DLSS/FSR so to go for the extra performance over the similarly priced 4070 Ti. All of which is fair, but I've realized I just want all the cool features. |
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Post by skalpadda on Feb 19, 2024 11:06:08 GMT
By the by, does anyone have a good link where I can read up more on DLSS, or fancy sharing their own experiences with it? I understand what upscaling and frame generation are, but I'm curious about how well it works in practice and what the downsides are (if any).
Are there noticeable visual artifacts from upscaling for example? Input lag?
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Post by Vandelay on Feb 19, 2024 12:27:07 GMT
As with most of these things it really comes to each individual implementation. Nowadays, I would say you might as well use DLSS if you can, sticking it on quality where possible. Often, the results can actually be better in places than native, but normally aren't any worse. There can be the odd issue, but on balance it is worth having on. If you can use DLAA on (which is basically applying DLSS on the native resolution), then that is always worth doing. Same goes for frame generation, although I've found that to be a little more mixed. Always worth trying, but you may end up preferring to not use it. The input lag issues don't seem to bad to me, but I should say I am using it on a 4090, so my base frame rate is already high - lower end cards, might suffer more. It does what it sets out to do though, and does give you almost double the performance. Digital Foundry is always a good place to go for this sort of thing. Here is their piece on frame gen - www.eurogamer.net/digitalfoundry-2022-first-look-nvidia-dlss-3-ai-upscaling-enters-a-new-dimension. This was a first look piece and you can expect better results now from it. |
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Post by barchetta on Feb 19, 2024 12:43:47 GMT
I'm running a 7800x3D with a 4070 driving an Ultrawide 1080p. Perhaps an odd mix but I plan to go 1440p or 1440 uwd soon.
Main use is MSFS2020 and I jumped from i5-6600k/1070 as I was struggling for decent framerates.
I think MSFS is the only title so far where I've seen DLSS gave some obvious negative visual effect - specifically the instrument panels/text. Might be an outlier but I find it looks sharper without. Hope it will be better when I move to 1440p though.
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crashV👀d👀
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not just a game anymore...
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Post by crashV👀d👀 on Feb 19, 2024 15:07:11 GMT
It's a bit wonky and I've called it out before but DLSS is a catch all name they've used for their AI tech. It originally was for the upscaling (dlss2.5) but they've rolled in the frame gen (DLSS 3), ray reconstruction (DLSS 3.5) and maybe this new hdr thing.
DLSS 2-2.5 is the upscaling that renders lower than your current Res and then upscales using AI. The idea being you take less of a hit trying to render at your native Res.
The different quality settings that Nvidia uses are just keywords in place of the render scale % numbers that AMD uses but actually as fixed increments alone the same sliding scale.
High performance starts with a lower base Res and upscales to your target. Naturally less data in produces less consistent data out. Quality on the other hand is a higher base Res so you get a better result.
Remember though, this does next to fuck all for CPU limited games and is for whentbhe game is GPU limited so it has to do less work.
For CPU limited games you want DLSS 3 which is the frame gen to add in extra frames and smoth it out at the cost of latency.
If neither are an issue then go for DLAA which is rendering at native but using the AI smarts to do the anti aliasing for smoothing all the jaggies
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Post by Vandelay on Feb 19, 2024 15:12:24 GMT
It's a bit wonky and I've called it out before but DLSS is a catch all name they've used for their AI tech. It originally was for the upscaling (dlss2.5) but they've rolled in the frame gen (DLSS 3), ray reconstruction (DLSS 3.5) and maybe this new hdr thing. Yep, bundling completely different things under one thing for no other reason than it being AI related doesn't help those that don't follow this stuff. I think most games just refer to DLSS 3 as frame gen to avoid that confusion. |
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zephro
Junior Member
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Post by zephro on Feb 19, 2024 19:44:41 GMT
So I played Cyberpunk at 1080p on a 3060 Ti, which was mostly badly CPU limited until I upgraded that. I had the Ray Tracing on Ultra I think, with some of the DLSS things enabled (not much with the upscaling if it's 1080 anyway).
I got anything between 40 and 60fps. Which I was fine with. I imagine a 4060 would also do a decent job and have a few more of the DLSS 3 type features to work with like frame generation.
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crashV👀d👀
Junior Member
not just a game anymore...
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Post by crashV👀d👀 on Feb 19, 2024 20:12:31 GMT
So I played Cyberpunk at 1080p on a 3060 Ti, which was mostly badly CPU limited until I upgraded that. I had the Ray Tracing on Ultra I think, with some of the DLSS things enabled (not much with the upscaling if it's 1080 anyway). I got anything between 40 and 60fps. Which I was fine with. I imagine a 4060 would also do a decent job and have a few more of the DLSS 3 type features to work with like frame generation. The 3060ti would allow you to use DLSS 2.5 upscaling and the 3.5 ray reconstruction tech. If CPU limited, you could've eased that by paring back the RT settings as that adds quite a bit of CPU overhead. The 4060 will grant you access to DLSS 3 frame gen. This will add extra games in to smooth out the performance but add a bit of latency to it. You may or may not notice this, I didn't really notice it when I turned it on. |
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zephro
Junior Member
Posts: 3,017
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Post by zephro on Feb 19, 2024 20:18:09 GMT
I was fine with 40fps due to being a dinosaur who mostly played games at 24 for decades. Ray reconstruction ought to work on a 3060 now but was disabled when I played.
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Post by stuz359 on Feb 19, 2024 22:26:47 GMT
I always love this, I played OoT at what, 10-15fps.
Don't get me wrong, love 60, but 30 is fine. I prefer to play on console the quality settings, so 30fps. Fps is for esports gamers.
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lukasz
New Member
Meat popsicle
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Post by lukasz on Feb 20, 2024 0:30:54 GMT
I always love this, I played OoT at what, 10-15fps. Don't get me wrong, love 60, but 30 is fine. I prefer to play on console the quality settings, so 30fps. Fps is for esports gamers. Ocarina of time? On pc? |
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Post by dfunked on Feb 20, 2024 7:44:59 GMT
Probably on the N64. We put up with some fucking awful performance back in the day, but that doesn't mean we have to now.
I'm fine with 30fps if it's the only option, but if it's got awful frame pacing/stuttering and the like it's a pretty fucking awful experience. At least with PC there are usually ways around most of that.
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crashV👀d👀
Junior Member
not just a game anymore...
Posts: 3,911
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Post by crashV👀d👀 on Feb 20, 2024 8:34:47 GMT
I always love this, I played OoT at what, 10-15fps. Don't get me wrong, love 60, but 30 is fine. I prefer to play on console the quality settings, so 30fps. Fps is for esports gamers. Not so much esport gamers, more mouse and keyboard players. I can play at 30 FPS and can even cope with bad frame pacing and some stutter *if* I'm on a controller. If I'm playing with a mouse and keyboard then I much prefer a nice consistent 60fps all day long |
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Post by Vandelay on Feb 20, 2024 8:36:27 GMT
I definitely had no issues with playing games at low FPS as a kid. I'm sure I remember playing Star Trek Elite Force (I think the first one, but not certain) in 20s and it might have even occasionally dropped into the teens. Didn't care at all and still loved the game.
Nowadays though, I've regularly played above 60 and no way I could go back to it on PC. I can put up with it on consoles if I have to (although I will always favour performance modes, if I have the option - playing Spider-Man 2 and switching that option really was night and day in the feel of the game), but I'm not going to settle with less where I have the choice.
Had a weird thing happen to my PC the other day. Noticed it all going very sluggish just in Windows. Moving a window about would judder a bit and sometimes typing would even have a half second delay. Tried doing a few updates to see if that would help. As I was rebooting, what looked like a BIOS warning popped up saying something about the CPU overheating.
Confused at this, as my cooling had always seemed to be fine, I just glanced through the glass panel on my case and noticed that the waterblock attached to my CPU was half hanging off! Somehow, the screw that attached one side of the block to the mobo, which had been fitted about two years ago with no issues since, had just popped right out.
Fortunately, I still had some thermal paste removing chemicals and a tube of the paste itself to be able to reapply the paste and fit the block again. Screwing the block to the mobo again was a pain on the arse and came away not that surprised that it managed to detach itself. I'm sure it will be fine now (temps all seem good), but may have to keep a check that it is all properly secured whenever I open up the case.
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