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Post by stuz359 on Feb 22, 2024 0:10:03 GMT
Updates from my adventure with a mid range graphics card.
If you can afford better, get better.
Witcher 3, I know the game is ageing a bit, but I expected the card to do better after the recent update. But not bad, consistant 1440p performance at ultra settings, full RT might be out.
Cyberpunk. The benchmark tool is ace. 1080p to extract any decent performance out of it but can get really decent RT performance and with frame gen, consistent 80-120FPS (not sure about gameplay scenarios).
Alan Wake 2, much better than expected for a modern game, really good RT performance and good frame rates with frame gen applied anyway.
But yeah, definitely hitting the limits of modern rendering with a 4060. If I could have stretched to a 4060ti I would, but a 4070 would have eliminated any issues I had with these games.
From my use case, interim card, nothing more, it was not worth justifying to myself an extra hundred quid for a 4060ti.
I do wonder how much my system is constrained by older tech. CPU is an I7 8700k, RAM is a bit on the slow side etc...
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Post by Mr Wonderstuff on Feb 22, 2024 7:27:29 GMT
stuz359 I'd deffo think your CPU is holding your GPU back a bit (as will the RAM) - especially at 1080p and 1440p. Whilst I never trust online calculators for this sort of thing it may be worth checking - see below what your spec came up with: Bottleneck calculator for your setup
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Post by uiruki on Feb 22, 2024 9:06:33 GMT
If you run MSI Afterburner or something similar with good usage tracking you can see where your system is bottlenecked while a game is running.
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Derblington
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Post by Derblington on Feb 22, 2024 12:56:39 GMT
I know very little about PCs currently, though I've been looking for a couple of weeks. Need to build a machine in March, which will be my first home PC for almost 20 years (my last was in 2005, then had a laptop for a while, then moved to Macbooks, then to an iPad, and now coming full circle).
Aiming for an i7-14700k, 4070 ti Super combo as I want it to last a long while.
Q on coolers: I don't want a big chassis (M-ATX), which limits my CPU cooler options somewhat. Currently looking at either a Deepcool AK620/Assassin IV or a 240mm Artic Liquid Freezer II (or III), but have seen some mention of a 240 aio not being adequate for the CPU. Obviously a 360mm would be better because more fans = more cooling, but should I be looking more exclusively at a 360 or will a decent 240 aio/air cooler suffice?
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Vandelay
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Post by Vandelay on Feb 22, 2024 13:39:53 GMT
Was about to say I would have thought that basically any cooler from a good brand would be fine, but it does look like that chip runs really hot. It would probably put me off going for it and I would be considering another chip.
My understanding from when I was looking into this about 3 years ago that AIOs might look flashy compared to a traditional heatsink, it doesn't actually make a significant difference compared to a reasonably good one.
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crashV👀d👀
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Post by crashV👀d👀 on Feb 22, 2024 14:12:05 GMT
Yeah the intel 14k series (and I believe the 13k as well) are a bit feisty with their heat and power requirements.
I second the the comment from Vand, I wouldn't say they perform better or worse (brand&quality not withstanding).
I have a nzxt kraken and I only really got it for the fancy screen on the CPU block but it does perform quite a bit better than the old AMD stock wraith prism that I used to have and that's with a hotter CPU on there too.
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Vandelay
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Post by Vandelay on Feb 22, 2024 14:24:44 GMT
Yes, I should caveat my comment a bit and perhaps instead say that any cooler will be better than the stock cooler! Don't know if the 14700k comes with one, but always worth replacing.
I've got a Corsair H100i Pro XT (I think that is the right combination of letters) and can't complain about its performance. Only complaint would be the fitting for my AMD board that I mentioned a few posts back.
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Post by uiruki on Feb 22, 2024 14:30:30 GMT
If I was buying a modern Intel chip I’d be looking at limiting its power draw in the BIOS. Especially at the higher end it just blasts loads of power through the chip for a relatively minor improvement. The higher end chips come with a default power limit of over 250W which is just ridiculous, and is run with the expectation that you will get thermal throttling, even with a big cooler.
If you bring it down to 125 or 95 watts it’s much more manageable with an absolutely minimal drop in performance.
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Post by stuz359 on Feb 22, 2024 20:59:35 GMT
stuz359 I'd deffo think your CPU is holding your GPU back a bit (as will the RAM) - especially at 1080p and 1440p. Whilst I never trust online calculators for this sort of thing it may be worth checking - see below what your spec came up with: Bottleneck calculator for your setup My plan is to build a PC on the instalment plan. I have a really nice case (NZXT H9 Flow), I have a Corsair 1000w PSU ready to go. The RTX 4600 was basically a stop gap, so I could play titles with more modern rendering features in the meantime. So, in a couple of months, can't do this in one go, new Motherboard, CPU (deffo thinking AMD, 7800X3d looks good) & 32gb of fast ram (I might go for 64gb, I do use it for content creation) and I can migrate some of the parts of my old PC to the new. Eventual plan is to stuff it with NVME's, and go for a high end 50 series Nvidia card |
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Post by tonyferrino on Feb 22, 2024 23:06:39 GMT
There are some 4070 Super Founder's in stock on the Nvidia shop, if anyone is in the market.
If not, I'll be selling a 3070 at some point next week!
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malek86
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Post by malek86 on Feb 24, 2024 7:39:57 GMT
In retrospect, I think I'll be better off not buying that Ryzen 5700X3D. In the end, given my GPU and monitor, the 3600 should hold up fairly well still. Especially because I don't play that many new games. By the time I'll be truly forced to upgrade, I'll just buy an AM5 mobo and RAM as well, which will most likely have become a bit cheaper.
Sure the 3D chips perform great in games, but it seems nowadays even a newer midrange like the 7600 would run faster, so I'd rather go for that eventually, instead of buying old tech.
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Post by stuz359 on Feb 24, 2024 23:16:51 GMT
Yeah I went with credit.
So I went with a Intel I7 12700k (12th gen), which was about £150 cheaper than a 7800X3d and outperforms it in real world scenarios. The motherboard gone for is decent, and it supports 14th gen Intel as well meaning that there is an upgrade path there. Went with 32gb DDR5 6000mhz Ram. All in spend was around £520.
CPU is coming from the US so won't arrive until March 7th, but it was a saving of £70.
I think I have everything for a new build, I'll let you know how it goes.
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Post by Fake_Blood on Feb 25, 2024 12:14:35 GMT
I don't mind launchers doing regular updates, but do they really need to sign me out every time it's been a while?
Like I'll play a game on Steam for a couple weeks, and tbf, it's the only launcher that runs on boot, but I currently have my password manager open and am copy/pasting passwords into Epic/EA and Ubisoft Connect. This happens every couple of weeks and seems a bit stupid. I could let them all launch on boot, but I'm not sure what the impact is on performance having 4 launchers in the background. Do you guys have a taskbar full of launchers?
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Post by peacemaker on Feb 25, 2024 13:07:47 GMT
After not owning a gaming pc for over a decade I finally bought one. First game is Hell divers 2 and immediately I had issues using either Bluetooth headset. Reminded me why I hadn’t bothered for so long. Already I am having to Google fixes for the issues and it looks like one quite a few have had with the game audio.
I ended up with a i5 14400 as the similar AMD priced cpu was quite a bit behind on all the benchmarks. Paired that with the more expensive option motherboard, 32 Ram with a 4070. Runs helldivers at 1440p on ultra at around 140fps which I’m happy with.
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Post by Phattso on Feb 25, 2024 13:38:04 GMT
Ever tried syncing a standard BT headset with a console? Welcome to delayville.  I also spent 40 minutes on Friday trying to get a BT headset to work with my LG CX Television, where it would disconnect after just three or four seconds EVERY FUCKING TIME. (To save anyone else with a Sonos Beam Gen 2 the same rage: it's the HDMI-CIC handshake taking back the audio stream when it loses it; solution was literally to unplug the fucking Beam). So basically chill out and enjoy what sounds like a fucking awesome PC, peacemaker. |
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Post by skalpadda on Feb 25, 2024 13:57:04 GMT
While it does happen and sucks when it does, my experience is that most things tend to work fine out of the box on PC these days. Having to problem solve and fiddle with things to make them work is more exception than rule. There's also been less need to keep up with the hardware curve in the last decade.
All things are relative of course. My frame of reference includes changing memory settings and rebooting the system to make things run at all, and later having to navigate the jungle of incompatible sound and video card settings for each individual game.
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crashV👀d👀
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Post by crashV👀d👀 on Feb 25, 2024 14:05:33 GMT
I don't mind launchers doing regular updates, but do they really need to sign me out every time it's been a while? Like I'll play a game on Steam for a couple weeks, and tbf, it's the only launcher that runs on boot, but I currently have my password manager open and am copy/pasting passwords into Epic/EA and Ubisoft Connect. This happens every couple of weeks and seems a bit stupid. I could let them all launch on boot, but I'm not sure what the impact is on performance having 4 launchers in the background. Do you guys have a taskbar full of launchers? nope, steam is allowed to launch and that's all. I fire up the others if/when I want to play something on them so yeah its annoying to find you're signed out. |
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Post by Fake_Blood on Feb 25, 2024 14:09:13 GMT
Kids these days, just try getting Wing Commander 3 running in Dos, it needed 480k of conventional memory, but with the cd-rom and mouse driver loaded.
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Post by skalpadda on Feb 25, 2024 14:36:51 GMT
I don't mind launchers doing regular updates, but do they really need to sign me out every time it's been a while? Like I'll play a game on Steam for a couple weeks, and tbf, it's the only launcher that runs on boot, but I currently have my password manager open and am copy/pasting passwords into Epic/EA and Ubisoft Connect. This happens every couple of weeks and seems a bit stupid. I could let them all launch on boot, but I'm not sure what the impact is on performance having 4 launchers in the background. Do you guys have a taskbar full of launchers? I have none that start up on boot and I can't remember the last time I got logged out anywhere - many months at least. Maybe I just use them often enough anyway. Having them in the taskbar eats a couple of hundred megs of RAM per program at worst. If you can spare that it should be fine. CPU usage in the background should be negligible. |
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Vandelay
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Post by Vandelay on Feb 25, 2024 14:40:47 GMT
I don't mind launchers doing regular updates, but do they really need to sign me out every time it's been a while? Like I'll play a game on Steam for a couple weeks, and tbf, it's the only launcher that runs on boot, but I currently have my password manager open and am copy/pasting passwords into Epic/EA and Ubisoft Connect. This happens every couple of weeks and seems a bit stupid. I could let them all launch on boot, but I'm not sure what the impact is on performance having 4 launchers in the background. Do you guys have a taskbar full of launchers? Currently I have stopped a few loading on boot up, as I was doing a bit of troubleshooting, but for a while I had 4 or 5 launchers. Can't say it had any noticeable performance impact. Maybe it takes an extra second or two to fully boot, but Steam actually is the one that takes the longest anyway and is probably the one I would always leave on. |
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crashV👀d👀
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Post by crashV👀d👀 on Feb 25, 2024 16:17:02 GMT
PCs and their foibles are all relative to your experience. If you've only ever had a console then they can seem like a vertical wall of knowledge. If you've not touched one in years then yeah its loooooads easier now.
My early pc formative years were wrangling dos 3x and text based stuff (and wordperfect) on a 286 before getting a 486 with dos 6.22 and windows 3.11. I developed a hatred for TSR programs that would eat us precious resources so this is why I don't like lots of shit running and just sitting in the system tray. Hand crafting special boot disks with minimal autoexec.bat and config.sys files. Half the fun (for me) in getting a new game back then was not only getting the fucker to work but also configuring your sound card especially if you went off-piste with a GUS instead of a soundblaster compatible.
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Post by Fake_Blood on Feb 25, 2024 16:28:42 GMT
But also no internet to help you. My first pc came assembled, but the hdd wasn’t even formatted, so it booted with a “no valid boot drive” type message. I put in the win95 cd-rom and was astounded that it didn’t do anything. It stood there for a week until one of my brother’s mates came around with some pc knowledge and installed dos 6.22 and the cd driver. And also, none of us spoke English. Good times.
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Post by stuz359 on Feb 25, 2024 17:50:26 GMT
Quick update, I loaded up FF15 today, just as a contrast between 1070 and 4060. I was able to get a locked 30 at 4k and a locked 60 at 1440p, all at ultra settings. Honestly the best way to play the game. I think I mentioned I had tried it on PS5, and it still runs like a dog.
I think it's the first time I have compared like for like in terms of rendering settings, been trying to go for all the new tech, but this is a like for like comparison between the two cards.
It does strike me that FF15 would definitely benefit from RT features though, it's a lovely looking game already (at least on PC).
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crashV👀d👀
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Post by crashV👀d👀 on Feb 25, 2024 18:54:03 GMT
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malek86
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Post by malek86 on Feb 25, 2024 19:12:32 GMT
We are looking into the future, and it is blurrier than I had hoped. |
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Blue_Mike
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Post by Blue_Mike on Feb 25, 2024 19:15:41 GMT
I do wonder how much of the heavy lifting G-SYNC is doing when it comes to my system.
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Post by stuz359 on Feb 25, 2024 19:30:18 GMT
I suppose MS coming up with their own AI upscaling solution was inevitable, might be a differentiator between Xbox and Play station. Without the actual processing block, coupled with access to motion vectors, can't seeing it dislodging DLSS as king of the up scaler's. Always happy to be proved wrong of course.
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Post by stixxuk on Feb 25, 2024 20:34:56 GMT
Thought the frequenters of this thread might appreciate - I was today years old when I learned Xbox has a Moonlight client you can install without needing to do any weird developer mode type stuff. It works great, and supports HDR. Much easier than what I was trying to do when I discovered it, which is to use a Steam Deck docked as a client for my TV. github.com/TheElixZammuto/moonlight-xbox |
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Derblington
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Post by Derblington on Feb 28, 2024 17:12:20 GMT
All the parts for my PC are now ordered, and the first arrived today. Proper excited about getting everything and putting it all together now.
Q: What do people do for virus protection now, is it still primarily Norton and McAffee or are there better options?
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Post by Phattso on Feb 28, 2024 17:18:11 GMT
Windows Defender and stop visiting porn sites. |
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