Tom Clancy’s US Politics Thread

And when it all goes badly for them what will they do? Its unlikely they'll flock back to the moderate ground.

Suddenly it makes a lot of sense why W.A.S.P. love him so much

metalinjection.net/news/blackie-lawless-defends-w-a-s-p-s-pro-donald-trump-speech-banners-at-recent-nyc-show

That is indeed interesting.

The globalization of the labour market is something that's affected everyone, and yet it's only in America that people so consistently vote against their own best interests (especially recently, with other prominent elections around the world, including the UK, going the opposite direction). Furthermore, Trump was already elected once on promises of "fixing" those problems, and much like all of his promises he failed to deliver, whereas under Biden the USA weathered the Covid inflation better than many if not all other countries worldwide and the job market experienced great upticks across the US. The blame for the rust belt states failing to adapt to a changing market doesn't necessarily fall on only one of the two parties, of course, but we've already seen which one actually attempted to provide a solution and yet here we are with the other one voted in again, and with a sweep at that.

Maybe, just maybe, those people needed to stop voting based on vibes and anger (or not voting, out of apathy) and actually research whose leadership benefited them?

Maybe, they should have voted for the party that would actually work for them and has been doing so, rather than elect ostensibly democratic state leaderships and rally in favour of "LAW AND ORDER!!!" then turn around and also elect a known criminal President that openly thinks of most of them as subhuman, likes elections only when they benefit him, rages at even the slightest bit of fact-checking (or even when he doesn't win by enough FFS!), preaches about changing the status quo while planning to strengthen it and actively torpedoes any helpful policy their state leaderships and Congressmen (and indeed, even his own party's state leaderships and Congressmen, at times!) attempt to promote?

Imagine needing to look up, on the day of the election, if Joe Biden is still the candidate! Or voting against an abortion ban on the state level and then bringing in a President, cabinet and in some cases state leaders who are so hateful and pro-bans they'd literally force doctors, under threat of job loss and punishment, to let women die instead of aborting the fetus that's killing them! This is the kind of "disillusioned" voter they're attempting to reason with!

There's an idiocy to it. And/or willful ignorance, and/or spite, and/or fear (for those forced or coerced to vote for destruction by, say, their spouses, and those, at least, I sympathize with)

"Fuck everyone who voted Republican, they don't deserve sympathy or help" doesn't sound like a particularly good or winning electoral strategy.

Those voters are going to get fucked anyway, not sure that people on the net wringing their hands about other people on the net saying "fuck them" is going to change that.

There's no hand-wringing! Just discussion, maybe with the possibility of the broadening of perspectives.

It's pretty convenient to have people who are so irredeemable that they can't possibly be talked to, because that means you don't even have to try.

I dunno. I think part of the Trump effect (along with social media, regular media, poor education) has been to widen those gaps and make everyone go completely fucking crazy. Maybe in the future it will be possible to talk about other people as if they're actually people, but it feels like it's a ways off yet.

Which is why I hate even saying or typing it... But these are people that largely would never extend the same sympathy to the "other side", and in fact are actively looking for its downfall. They're actively voting for and rooting for an administration that's openly advocating for removal of rights and cruel policies against demographic after demographic. They got angry at Trump because he "wasn't hurting the right people", for crying out loud, and the petty cruelty of the Republicans goes so far that one of the first things they did now that a trans person is entering Congress was to introduce a bill denying her bathroom access! Might as well have called it the "Fuck Sarah McBride in particular" bill...

Again, this is by no means something I like saying. I hate that I (and many others) have been made this jaded. But for every one of them that might actually be swayed by an attempt at reconciliation and understanding, there's a dozen that will, and have, consistently spit in your face no matter how you approach them and vote for anything that will hurt you, not caring if they're also hurt in the process...

Bottom line is, ordinarily I agree with you that this is not the kind of thinking we should have. This cult (because that's what it is, let's be honest) has irreparably wrecked families and friendships all across the US and is spilling over into other countries too, and it's horrible. But you can only extend so many olive branches before getting tired of the other side burning them down with a flamethrower and howling that they'll do the same to you...

Yeah, that's the point. We can afford to say "fuck everyone who voted for Trump, they don't know what's good for them" pretty easily, not living in America and probably never having even met a Trump voter.

But Democrats can't afford to do that. They lost people in cities and in the country, they lost a good share of the Black and Hispanic vote, and *they lost the popular vote*. If they want to win again, saying "fuck 'em" is just not going to work. They need to get their shit together, because the Republicans aren't going to.

They do, but "getting their shit together" doesn't mean trying to appeal to a population that sees only the R, it means energizing their own voter base. It's obvious after almost 10 years of this shit that MAGA just don't listen (or, if they do, still find an excuse to vote R anyway). When Biden won in 2020, it wasn't because Trump lost voter share, but because Biden increased his. "Democrats fall in love, Republicans fall in line" is a cliché, but the results have shown that both it and "higher turnout favours Democrats" are actually true!

You want a winning strategy for the Democrats? Stop pandering to those that consistently shit on you and turning off your own voting base in the process. You won't get right-wing votes and you'll induce apathy in yours. Galvanize your own voting base, and not just near the election, all the time. Fight the MAGA assholery at every turn, in every way and show people who actually cares. Treating then with kiddie gloves when they spout out hatred 24/7 was what got us Trump twice (and, if you want to go even further back, was what made Gore concede to Bush and Ford pardon Nixon). They see decorum and good faith as weaknesses and pounce on them, effectively at that, while the Dem voter base (evidently) doesn't care about "the high road" either. Why continue clinging to it this much?? Why is the proposed solution always to shake the hand of the guy with a gun at your head or a knife at your back?!?

Don't worry I get it.

There have been similar results in other countries as well from time to time, true, but that's why I said "consistently". The one time America steadily went for a President that did proper work in recent history was Obama (Biden was arguably boosted by COVID, plus he was bookended by Trump on both ends instead of him or another Dem managing a second term), and at the state level you see multiple states, particularly in the south, voting in the same governance that's been fucking them over and over, for decades! Not even the Tories in the UK had this long-lived of a success story...