kal
Full Member
Posts: 8,309
|
Post by kal on Jan 11, 2024 20:51:59 GMT
I still don’t really understand why the Dreamcast flopped. It was the first out the gates that gen, was an huge leap forward over the competition and had a decent number of excellent (and original) games, even at launch. It really deserved better.
I guess Sony and Microsoft had really stolen Sega’s position as the cooler slightly more grown up alternative to Nintendo. Just didn’t have the right market position to survive.
|
|
|
|
Post by Jambowayoh on Jan 11, 2024 20:58:29 GMT
From what I remember they were already massively in debt after the failure of the Saturn and yeah competing with Sony was bleeding them dry and ultimately when they surprised everyone by revealing the release date of it at E3 WITHOUT telling retailers and partners who were really pissed off, you can see how it was just one fuck up after another. It's crazy that despite selling massively in the States it just wasn't enough and their constant price cuts kept up the bleeding. As you say the older, cooler demographic that Sony were courting was just too strong.
|
|
cubby
Full Member
doesn't get subtext
Posts: 6,368
|
Post by cubby on Jan 11, 2024 21:09:12 GMT
Not having EA games was one of the biggest issues.
|
|
|
|
Post by Phattso on Jan 11, 2024 21:09:38 GMT
Also didn’t get some key big franchises at the time so was on the back foot. Still probably my favourite console. So much quality. So much variety.
|
|
|
|
Post by baihu1983 on Jan 11, 2024 21:11:05 GMT
Yeah they got themselves in so much debt thanks to blowing money on the Sega CD,32X and Neptune.
The shadow drop Saturn release to only select retailers really hurt them. Not helped by Sony's 299 bomb at that E3.
Not being able to afford DVD for the Dreamcast also really hurt them and was a big selling point for the PS2.
|
|
|
|
Post by baihu1983 on Jan 11, 2024 21:11:48 GMT
Not having EA games was one of the biggest issues. Shame because Sega put out much better sports titles. |
|
|
|
Post by Jambowayoh on Jan 11, 2024 21:11:55 GMT
Playing a better than arcade version of Soul Calibur will always be a core memory for me.
|
|
cubby
Full Member
doesn't get subtext
Posts: 6,368
|
Post by cubby on Jan 11, 2024 21:20:24 GMT
Not having EA games was one of the biggest issues. Shame because Sega put out much better sports titles. It's a pretty mafiosa move from EA tbh, "if you make any sports games we'll pull out and you'll be ruined." |
|
|
|
Post by darkling on Jan 11, 2024 21:38:19 GMT
If I could sum up the Dreamcast in one word it'd be "rushed". The hardware was great and had huge potential, but it was just a bit rough around the edges.
The disc drive was a bit noisy, the VMU chewed through batteries, and I simply couldn't get hold of an official light gun for HotD2, so I had to settle for a third party equivalent.
It proved it was capable of delivering arcade ports which were superior to the original, such as Soul Calibur, but it was a shame Sega Rally 2 was a bit lackluster, seemingly coming in a bit hot at launch... a launch very light on games.
None of that stopped me loving the console though. My oldest friends say one of the things they remember most is playing Crazy Taxi and MvC2 for hours in my room, so it was absolutely worth owning one.
I bought one because the allure of playing arcade games in my bedroom was too much, but most people were seemingly just happy to wait for the PS2, which is understandable.
|
|
|
|
Post by baihu1983 on Jan 12, 2024 4:20:38 GMT
Shame because Sega put out much better sports titles. It's a pretty mafiosa move from EA tbh, "if you make any sports games we'll pull out and you'll be ruined." Dicks are the reason MS killed it's sports titles. |
|
Onny
Junior Member
Posts: 1,152
|
Post by Onny on Jan 12, 2024 5:24:38 GMT
I think Sega realised too late that the market had grown up. The Dreamcast looked like a toy, and most of its best games were arcade games but by then most people didn’t really go to arcades. The PS2 looked like a piece of audio equipment, and had “serious” games like the big sports titles, MGS2 and Gran Turismo. It was the console for grown ups.
Then of course the Xbox came along and changed the industry entirely.
|
|
|
|
Post by baihu1983 on Jan 12, 2024 6:08:13 GMT
Still annoying that they dumped DC compatability last minute on Xbox.
|
|
|
|
Post by rhaegyr on Jan 12, 2024 8:10:12 GMT
It was really easy to pirate games too, you didn't even need to mod the console in any way - always felt a bit of guilt for that (despite buying a ton of legit games).
|
|
kal
Full Member
Posts: 8,309
|
Post by kal on Jan 12, 2024 8:16:17 GMT
Then of course the Xbox came along and changed the industry entirely. Mmmm, did they? The big change was Sony getting involved. Microsoft were just following their lead and it was a couple of generations before they were competing in any meaningful way. |
|
|
|
Post by zisssou on Jan 12, 2024 9:18:14 GMT
It was interesting reading Itchy Tasty as to why Capcom decided to release Code Veronica on the Dreamcast. Apparently it was an apology for cancelling the port of 2 on the Saturn, and wanted to keep a close relationship with Sega.
|
|
|
|
Post by gamingdave on Jan 12, 2024 10:44:45 GMT
I think the biggest issue was simply the marketing.
They spunked a load of money sponsoring Arsenal, and put out TV adverts with Robbie Williams soundtracks but NO footage of any of the games. Sony did experimental advertising at times (hello David Lynch) but mainly focussed on the games, people would get excited - Wipeout, GT, MGS2 and GTA would shift systems, and they were sure to show them off.
I was working at Sega at the time, and remember a mate phoning up when they finally showed some footage. It was the advert for MSR and he was blown away, asking me all about it, but up till then it simply wasn't on his radar.
EA really didn't help. A DVD drive would have been nice, but I think is overly credited as shifting PS2s.
The Dreamcast was amazing. Awesome library, internet enabled (a first), beautiful 480p output, great controllers and peripherals (my arcade sticks are still going strong) and it came out first. But Sony built hype, and made people want (and wait for) the PS2.
|
|
|
|
Post by Jambowayoh on Jan 12, 2024 11:00:07 GMT
I don't think I could say the Dreamcast controller was "great" especially when you compare it to the Dualshock 2 at the the time. Let's face it DVD inclusion in the PS2 was a great move when you consider how much DVD players were back in the day and what you were getting for your PS2 purchase.
|
|
|
|
Post by rhaegyr on Jan 12, 2024 11:30:03 GMT
Dualshock 1, 2 and 3 were shite - the analogue stick position and deadzone were bloody horrible imo.
Sony only got their pad right from the PS4 onwards.
|
|
|
|
Post by Jambowayoh on Jan 12, 2024 11:32:49 GMT
I'll give you 3 but I'd argue 2 was a great controller for the time if we're comparing it to shit like The Duke and the perplexing layout of the GC controller.
|
|
|
|
Post by rhaegyr on Jan 12, 2024 11:38:35 GMT
I'm a huge fan of the GC controller - the 8-way octagonal gate is something I wish was replicated on other controllers. Never had a problem with the button placement either and it felt lovely in the hand. C-Stick and the 'Z' button weren't great, I'll give you that.
Playstation analogue sticks just never did it for me until the PS4 and they're such a huge part of modern gaming.
Way to 'loose', far too close together, convex layout with poor grip and the position should be swapped with the D-Pad. At least they remedied the first three problems for the DS4 onwards.
Very aware that enjoyment of controllers is down to personal preference though!
|
|
|
|
Post by Jambowayoh on Jan 12, 2024 11:43:32 GMT
The GC controller was comfortable to hold but that layout didn't really help with muscle memory but I guess that's Nintendo with their current weird labelling of buttons which still throws me whenever I use a Switch.
|
|
|
|
Post by rhaegyr on Jan 12, 2024 11:49:12 GMT
Hah, I know what you mean. I still remember playing FF7 on the Playstation and being thrown when Circle was used to confirm.
It's strange as I actually wish most manufacturers would do that - my natural resting position of my thumb is on the Circle / A button.
|
|
|
|
Post by Jambowayoh on Jan 12, 2024 11:55:02 GMT
Interesting, for me it's X/Square. Making the A button on the GC button massive was a stroke of genius though.
|
|
|
|
Post by zisssou on Jan 12, 2024 11:59:48 GMT
Mmmm them triggers on the GC. That was pleasurable.
|
|
|
|
Post by baihu1983 on Jan 12, 2024 12:05:20 GMT
I think the biggest issue was simply the marketing. They spunked a load of money sponsoring Arsenal, and put out TV adverts with Robbie Williams soundtracks but NO footage of any of the games. Sony did experimental advertising at times (hello David Lynch) but mainly focussed on the games, people would get excited - Wipeout, GT, MGS2 and GTA would shift systems, and they were sure to show them off. I was working at Sega at the time, and remember a mate phoning up when they finally showed some footage. It was the advert for MSR and he was blown away, asking me all about it, but up till then it simply wasn't on his radar. EA really didn't help. A DVD drive would have been nice, but I think is overly credited as shifting PS2s. The Dreamcast was amazing. Awesome library, internet enabled (a first), beautiful 480p output, great controllers and peripherals (my arcade sticks are still going strong) and it came out first. But Sony built hype, and made people want (and wait for) the PS2. Also didn't help all the ads went on about online which wasn't available at launch. Not many launch games have had the impact of this is a big upgrade like that beach level in Sonic did. |
|
|
|
Post by dangerousdave on Jan 12, 2024 12:36:33 GMT
I think we already knew about games like Final Fantasy X, Tomb Raider and MGS 2 were also in the works for PS2, but not Dreamcast. Even if it was never officially confirmed, you knew it was already going to be missing out on big titles.
|
|
kal
Full Member
Posts: 8,309
|
Post by kal on Jan 12, 2024 13:07:27 GMT
As with everything Nintendo (at that time at least) the GameCube controller was great for games designed specifically for it like Smash Bros but not great for anything generic. The way it was designed to allow easy pressing of multiple thumb buttons at the same time was excellent but again, only for games that were designed with that in mind.
|
|
|
|
Post by Danno on Jan 12, 2024 14:40:58 GMT
The GC pad's octagonal stick felt great for Smash Bros and Super Monkey Ball, would love a Pro Pad with that feature for the Switch
|
|
|
|
Post by Bill in the rain on Jan 12, 2024 14:53:12 GMT
I'm still using my GC controller.  I just wish the d-pad was better. Tiny little thing. |
|
kal
Full Member
Posts: 8,309
|
Post by kal on Jan 12, 2024 15:36:21 GMT
The GC pad's octagonal stick felt great for Smash Bros and Super Monkey Ball, would love a Pro Pad with that feature for the Switch You can get GameCube controllers for the Switch (again with Smash Bros specifically in mind). |
|
