kal
Full Member
Posts: 8,309
|
Post by kal on Jun 15, 2022 11:30:35 GMT
Harsh on Emery. The man has won the EL four times.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2022 11:31:51 GMT
He just got Arsenal'd when he was there.
|
|
|
|
Post by Dougs on Jun 15, 2022 11:42:35 GMT
Harsh on Emery. The man has won the EL four times. Mostly playing teams on a level with his though. As soon as he plays a "bigger" team, his tactics become more conservative and he retreats. |
|
スコットランド
Junior Member
Delicious gruel
Posts: 3,934
|
Post by スコットランド on Jun 15, 2022 11:53:43 GMT
Harsh on Emery. The man has won the EL four times. Mostly playing teams on a level with his though. As soon as he plays a "bigger" team, his tactics become more conservative and he retreats. He won 3 of those EL finals against Manchester United, Liverpool and Benfica. |
|
dogbot
Full Member
Posts: 8,738
|
Post by dogbot on Jun 15, 2022 11:56:56 GMT
Mostly playing teams on a level with his though. As soon as he plays a "bigger" team, his tactics become more conservative and he retreats. He won 3 of those EL finals against Manchester United, Liverpool and Benfica. Whilst that's true, his teams were incredibly conservative against us (and Liverpool). That it worked doesn't change the tactics. |
|
kal
Full Member
Posts: 8,309
|
Post by kal on Jun 15, 2022 12:01:25 GMT
I get the comparison but again I think it’s a bit harsh on Emery.
|
|
スコットランド
Junior Member
Delicious gruel
Posts: 3,934
|
Post by スコットランド on Jun 15, 2022 12:01:48 GMT
He won 3 of those EL finals against Manchester United, Liverpool and Benfica. Whilst that's true, his teams were incredibly conservative against us (and Liverpool). That it worked doesn't change the tactics. Fair enough, so a more successful Southgate with darker hair. |
|
dogbot
Full Member
Posts: 8,738
|
Post by dogbot on Jun 15, 2022 12:04:05 GMT
Or, David Moyes.  |
|
|
|
Post by Mark1412 on Jun 15, 2022 17:57:40 GMT
Surprised anyone can look beyond the Euros final. Best chance of glory in a lifetime thrown away by a coward and it gets worse with age. Still playing the same way now - just worse - so he's hardly going to get a different result in a World Cup. FA need to show some spine.
Good guy, but not the guy.
|
|
|
|
Post by Trowel 🏴 on Jun 15, 2022 18:01:39 GMT
It is, still nowhere near as bad as Kane's dive  You must be Hungary if you’re so desperate for a bite. That’s how it’s done. This is how it's done |
|
Tomo
Junior Member
Posts: 3,492
|
Post by Tomo on Jun 15, 2022 22:38:32 GMT
|
|
dogbot
Full Member
Posts: 8,738
|
Post by dogbot on Jun 15, 2022 22:44:56 GMT
I read that earlier and I think it is mostly. I also think that it covers a lot of reasons I find international football so achingly dull.
In keeping with the opening paragraph, presumably we can expect our Gareth to disappear into a cloud shortly and never be seen again.
|
|
|
|
Post by retro74 on Jun 15, 2022 22:54:29 GMT
Absolutely spot on. We’ve got this team of largely average, workmanlike players and people think he’s doing a bad job, it’s beyond mental English players don’t drive the success of the PL, foreign players do. You need the “bodies” to make up the numbers but that’s all they are. They don’t influence the games or the results of them for the most part Southgate is unpopular with the press for one reason - because he’s outspoken on social issues and they don’t want someone in an influential position doing things like that |
|
Tomo
Junior Member
Posts: 3,492
|
Post by Tomo on Jun 15, 2022 23:07:49 GMT
I don't think it's even a bad squad. The midfield is lacking a really creative passing player and we could do with a bit more potency other than Kane. Goalies are a bit middling. It's just embarrassing even listening for calls for him to go. He's lost 2 games and was a couple of penalty kicks away from winning the Euros ffs.
|
|
kal
Full Member
Posts: 8,309
|
Post by kal on Jun 16, 2022 6:24:29 GMT
I feel like there’s a lot of over-intellectualising what is an incredibly understandable and valid frustration at getting absolutely thrashed at home by a shitty team that we should comfortably beating.
|
|
|
|
Post by captbirdseye on Jun 16, 2022 6:56:10 GMT
England have been poor for a while now so the past few performances shouldn't be much of a surprise. He will likely be gone after the World Cup and his recent comments hint he will go back to boring everyone to death.
|
|
|
|
Post by Dougs on Jun 16, 2022 7:06:17 GMT
The Ramble made a good point...given that the Euros were a year late, everyone is essentially losing a year's prep for the tournament.
He needs to go back to what worked. That's playing people in their best positions and stop trying to please everyone by shoehorning players into the team (not a new issue, I agree). If that also means going back a more defensive mindset, I don't think people will care too much if it gets results.
|
|
|
|
Post by clemfandango on Jun 16, 2022 7:14:14 GMT
People seem quick to forget that England had the easiest run to a World Cup semi final ever and the easiest run to a euro final ever. The fact that we massively overrate them as soon as they win a few games doesn’t help either.
Southgate is a championship level manager with a knack for morale building. The players all look better than they are at club level because they player with talented foreign players who do all the technical work. Just because we stick £100 million English tax price tags on players doesn’t mean they are world beaters
|
|
kal
Full Member
Posts: 8,309
|
Post by kal on Jun 16, 2022 7:30:07 GMT
Most top tournament winning sides are made up of 2 or 3 world class players and then some fairly decent ones. There’s the odd exception like that Spain side a few years back, but generally international football is universally lower quality than elite club level.
|
|
スコットランド
Junior Member
Delicious gruel
Posts: 3,934
|
Post by スコットランド on Jun 16, 2022 7:41:41 GMT
The Ramble made a good point...given that the Euros were a year late, everyone is essentially losing a year's prep for the tournament. He needs to go back to what worked. That's playing people in their best positions and stop trying to please everyone by shoehorning players into the team (not a new issue, I agree). If that also means going back a more defensive mindset, I don't think people will care too much if it gets results. "trying to please everyone by shoehorning players into the team" - I'm clueless but had the impression that that's what pretty much all England managers in my lifetime did until South Gate and at least previously, he didn't. Is that wrong? |
|
|
|
Post by Zomoniac on Jun 16, 2022 8:06:35 GMT
<--- There is a manager available with a track record of playing all out attack in international football. Might be worth a go if 'unleashing' is really what people want.
|
|
kal
Full Member
Posts: 8,309
|
Post by kal on Jun 16, 2022 8:10:56 GMT
For me international football is effectively exhibition football. It doesn’t really matter in the same way club football does. It’s a celebration of the game on a global scale and teams should approach it with pride and positivity. It should be joyous.
My favourite England mangoes are the ones that leant into that and gave players like Gazza or Rooney their moments to really shine. Someone like Grealish is absolutely made for the International game for example. If we’re not such a great side all the more reason to have fun with it.
|
|
nexus6
Junior Member
Posts: 2,527
|
Post by nexus6 on Jun 16, 2022 8:15:07 GMT
mmm English mangoes
|
|
|
|
Post by Dougs on Jun 16, 2022 8:18:53 GMT
The Ramble made a good point...given that the Euros were a year late, everyone is essentially losing a year's prep for the tournament. He needs to go back to what worked. That's playing people in their best positions and stop trying to please everyone by shoehorning players into the team (not a new issue, I agree). If that also means going back a more defensive mindset, I don't think people will care too much if it gets results. "trying to please everyone by shoehorning players into the team" - I'm clueless but had the impression that that's what pretty much all England managers in my lifetime did until South Gate and at least previously, he didn't. Is that wrong? No, you're not wrong, hence why I said it's not a new issue. But in the last few games, his selection has been weird at times. Just play players in their best positions FFS. Some will miss out but go back to what worked before, which is picking a)players in form and b) creating a proper team, not a bunch of individuals. |
|
|
|
Post by retro74 on Jun 16, 2022 10:00:58 GMT
Picking players “in form” isn’t a way to build a team. Form can change from game to game, even from minute to minute in a game
You pick your best players based on data and the influence they have and you create a team that way
Sometimes gut feel can work abs you feel that a certain player might do well against certain opposition but if you want long term success you need structure. Which every successful team in the history of sport has or had
|
|
dogbot
Full Member
Posts: 8,738
|
Post by dogbot on Jun 16, 2022 10:13:58 GMT
We’ve got this team of largely average, workmanlike players Now, whilst I don't remotely believe we have a team who'd "walk into any national team in Europe" (or whatever the quote was), I also don't think that this is the case, either. Barring injuries, the squad we'll take to the WC will be strong. Strongest? No, probably not. But strong, definitely. |
|
スコットランド
Junior Member
Delicious gruel
Posts: 3,934
|
Post by スコットランド on Jun 16, 2022 12:43:21 GMT
"trying to please everyone by shoehorning players into the team" - I'm clueless but had the impression that that's what pretty much all England managers in my lifetime did until South Gate and at least previously, he didn't. Is that wrong? No, you're not wrong, hence why I said it's not a new issue. But in the last few games, his selection has been weird at times. Just play players in their best positions FFS. Some will miss out but go back to what worked before, which is picking a)players in form and b) creating a proper team, not a bunch of individuals. OK, so Southgate has recently reverted to the shoehorning that previous managers did despite initially not doing it? He's a decent, likeable guy but the football has often been dull, is that the general opinion? |
|
|
|
Post by Dougs on Jun 16, 2022 12:55:08 GMT
Picking players “in form” isn’t a way to build a team. Form can change from game to game, even from minute to minute in a game You pick your best players based on data and the influence they have and you create a team that way Sometimes gut feel can work abs you feel that a certain player might do well against certain opposition but if you want long term success you need structure. Which every successful team in the history of sport has or had True to a point, but I also don't agree with picking players who aren't playing well for either club or country. |
|
askew
Full Member
Posts: 6,802
|
Post by askew on Jun 16, 2022 15:23:06 GMT
Can't beat a bit of turnip |
|
Frog
Full Member
Posts: 7,274
|
Post by Frog on Jun 16, 2022 17:56:42 GMT
The only stronger squads at the world cup will be France, Brazil and Spain I think.
|
|
