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Post by mcgeeza on Aug 20, 2024 8:39:50 GMT
Don't spend $180 million on about 5 hours of TV unless you're creating something incredible. It had enough material for a TV movie not random length episodes that were poorly constructed by people who don't know how to make TV shows. The fans aren't to blame for Disney incompetence. Yeah the last couple of episodes were enjoyable. But the rest of the series was a bit dull. This appears to be the pattern with the Disney SW shows, apart from Andor maybe, and even that had a glacially slow start. |
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Bongo Heracles
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Post by Bongo Heracles on Aug 20, 2024 9:06:17 GMT
Don't spend $180 million on about 5 hours of TV unless you're creating something incredible. This is the problem with Disney+ as a whole. I know the aim is to get people subbed for two months but I would much prefer straight-to-video movies than an idea stretched to breaking point over eight eps. I mean, this wasn't a bad idea. Star Wars Rashomon. Fine. It was just executed by someone who seemingly hadn't watched a TV show before. It would have been *so* much better as a film. And even then, I think it was saveable with a change of show runner. Chunks of it were decent but when you're sinking this much money in, you don't get a second chance. |
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Bongo Heracles
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Post by Bongo Heracles on Aug 20, 2024 9:09:34 GMT
Thing is though, this sort of hate gets whipped up by passionate fans, such as Red Letter Media. They gave a lot exposure to how bad it was. They're obviously entitled to their opinions, but yeah, I think they perhaps get a little overboard at times, but that gets them the clicks. I don't think that's fair. They just said it was barely mid and repeatedly called out a lot of the freaks losing their minds over it. |
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Lukus
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Post by Lukus on Aug 20, 2024 9:12:41 GMT
I'm a Star Wars fan (or at least I want to be - it's hard when the vast majority of the franchise isn't great and is forever chasing the glory years) and I can't be arsed to watch this. I'm sure there must be plenty more like me where apathy after all the disappointments has taken over.
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Bongo Heracles
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Post by Bongo Heracles on Aug 20, 2024 9:20:53 GMT
Its not actually that much of a time commitment if you want something to stick on in the background. With recaps and quarter of an hours worth of credits, each episode is barely 20 minutes long. I mean, now its been canned, who gives a fuck but I reckon there is barely 2.5hrs worth of TV there (which, again, is why it should have been a movie).
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Post by rhaegyr on Aug 20, 2024 9:22:21 GMT
I clocked out after Andor - people were holding it up as the holy grail of SW content and I just found it boring.
If this is as good as it gets than sadly I think it just isn't for me anymore.
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Derblington
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Did you know I have a girlfriend
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Post by Derblington on Aug 20, 2024 9:28:14 GMT
I just don’t think Disney know what to do with Star Wars.
Marvel are making missteps but ultimately Feige does ‘get it’, and I’m fairly sure we’ll see some decent stuff again. I don’t have that same faith with SW. Mando gets a lot of praise but it’s really nothing to shout about and I’m genuinely a bit puzzled as to why it’s getting a movie. Everything else is poor or just a bit flat.
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Post by darkling on Aug 20, 2024 9:45:00 GMT
I think the main thing Star Wars fans want is competent storytelling (Andor and Mando were mostly successful) but when they complain they're told to stop moaning about a "franchise about space wizards aimed at kids" as if the subject matter somehow excuses poor storycraft.
Then, as RLM highlighted, there's the fundamental misunderstanding of characters such as Yoda, which had the "brains over brawn" character jumping around like a kangaroo in Attack of the Clones.
I do think the original trilogy had the distinct advantage of being set in the most fertile time for storytelling in the Star Wars timeline, where the Jedi were an intriguing myth, and the Rebels were well and truly on the back-foot.
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Bongo Heracles
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Post by Bongo Heracles on Aug 20, 2024 9:53:42 GMT
I just don’t think Disney know what to do with Star Wars. I think, more broadly, they don't know what to do with Disney+. Its this giant money pit they need to keep stocked with content to keep people subscribed so they are stuck between producing quality and producing just anything. You can also chart the enshittification of Marvel to pretty much the minute it launched. They just don't or didn't feel like they had the time to make sure these things don't suck, so they just throw money at it. Its probably why we have had more shows than movies which, really, I don't think anyone wants. |
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Post by Reviewer on Aug 20, 2024 13:24:02 GMT
I’d have been embarrassed to be the exec that signed off $180m on that. It was just so boring and I can’t see where the money went, it certainly wasn’t on making it interesting.
Get someone to find cheaper good ways of making these things and spend more on scripts and deciding what should be made.
It annoyed me how bad it is when things like Andor have shown how good they can be.
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Post by Reviewer on Aug 20, 2024 13:27:13 GMT
I just don’t think Disney know what to do with Star Wars. I think, more broadly, they don't know what to do with Disney+. Its this giant money pit they need to keep stocked with content to keep people subscribed so they are stuck between producing quality and producing just anything. You can also chart the enshittification of Marvel to pretty much the minute it launched. They just don't or didn't feel like they had the time to make sure these things don't suck, so they just throw money at it. Its probably why we have had more shows than movies which, really, I don't think anyone wants. A big problem is a lot of people have binged everything good so from this point on it’s hard for most people to justify subbing to them permanently. There needs to be a lot of almost unmissable new stuff constantly and that’s almost impossible. Films and mini series that cost $200m for a few episodes don’t seem to make sense for long term subscription retention. |
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Lizard
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Post by Lizard on Aug 21, 2024 2:00:47 GMT
Bring on Real Housewives of Marvel and Big Brother: Star Wars Cosplay edition.
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Post by 😎 on Aug 21, 2024 2:37:08 GMT
Hulu is slowly being merged into Disney+ over here, so that’ll solve at least some of their problems in that they’ll have new content churned out by the networks they can rely on.
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Post by zisssou on Aug 21, 2024 8:31:27 GMT
Just give me King of the Hill already.
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Post by cristar on Aug 21, 2024 8:43:00 GMT
I'm currently watching 24 on Disney+. Fuck watching any of that new Star Wars garbage.
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Bongo Heracles
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Post by Bongo Heracles on Aug 21, 2024 8:53:22 GMT
I do think the original trilogy had the distinct advantage of being set in the most fertile time for storytelling in the Star Wars timeline, where the Jedi were an intriguing myth, and the Rebels were well and truly on the back-foot. I was thinking about this yesterday and that, really, could be anywhere. The galaxy is a big place and we only see a narrow slice. We follow the story of like five people. Their wacky capers would still be unheard of by most people or legend at best even with the fall of the empire. Its why, ironically, I think Star Wars games are probably the most successful spin-off material. Because they can't use any (or very limited) existing guff, they have to actually think of interesting stories to tell. They really show how interesting the world can be if you fill it with characters we care about and not shoehorn all the mandatory call backs in. |
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Post by GigaChad Sigma. on Aug 21, 2024 12:38:45 GMT
Star Wars and Disney have a room full of exec whose purpose is to bring in a new user base.
We must get the 12 - 16 demographic! We must have more inclusive content! No one can enjoy a thing unless there is a character is a mirror image!
Storytelling, character development and passion are secondary to having a non-binary Jedi in a wheelchair.
But TV, even streaming is no match for watching Ryan Whizbang recreate a K-Pop dance on YouTube.
So they're chasing a market that couldn't give a fuck about canon, alienating the original audience and diluting it's value with cheap Jedi Paw Patrol.
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Post by Jambowayoh on Aug 21, 2024 12:58:50 GMT
Who are the original audience, the one's from the OG trilogy, the second trilogy? Do they lay claim because they were first? What do they want from their Star Wars movies? I mean you could argue that Lucas alienated his own audience with second trilogy. If you want better writing I don't think that was a strong point under Lucas' stewardship. Is it not ok to have people who look different and are differently abled or have a different sexuality in a galaxy of billions of billions of people that for some reason is fulled to the brim with white people?
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Post by GigaChad Sigma. on Aug 21, 2024 13:30:15 GMT
Do you like A new hope, Empire or ROTJ?
Do you think any of the recent content has been an improvement?
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Post by technoish on Aug 21, 2024 13:35:48 GMT
Reminds me an open letter from fans of A New Hope complaining that Lucas had ruined star wars in response to Empire Strikes Back.
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Post by zisssou on Aug 21, 2024 13:36:24 GMT
I think the sequels tried to appease the older fanbase, than trying to get in a new audience. You look at the prequels, and what Lucas did with Jar Jar. That's all for the kids, which pissed off the older fanbase.
Basically bring back George to sort this mess out.
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Post by technoish on Aug 21, 2024 13:36:50 GMT
I like Rogue One and Andor a lot. I'm quite enjoying Ahsoka at the minute.
I enjoyed the sequel trilogy more than the prequels.
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Post by Jambowayoh on Aug 21, 2024 13:48:26 GMT
Do you like A new hope, Empire or ROTJ? Do you think any of the recent content has been an improvement? I do.
I think they've been pretty bad straight after the OG trilogy. That's more due to everything else being held to ransom by the Skywalker legacy to "appease the fans" as it were. There's also Disney's insatiable desire for content that has reduced what was an event film into something lesser, the inclusion of people who aren't straight white males doesn't devalue it, bad writing, no clear leadership and falling back to callbacks from the OG trilogy does.
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Post by darkling on Aug 22, 2024 10:21:40 GMT
I do think the original trilogy had the distinct advantage of being set in the most fertile time for storytelling in the Star Wars timeline, where the Jedi were an intriguing myth, and the Rebels were well and truly on the back-foot. I was thinking about this yesterday and that, really, could be anywhere. The galaxy is a big place and we only see a narrow slice. We follow the story of like five people. Their wacky capers would still be unheard of by most people or legend at best even with the fall of the empire. Its why, ironically, I think Star Wars games are probably the most successful spin-off material. Because they can't use any (or very limited) existing guff, they have to actually think of interesting stories to tell. They really show how interesting the world can be if you fill it with characters we care about and not shoehorn all the mandatory call backs in. I suppose I also meant the original trilogy had the pick of the bunch when it came to characters' archetypes and their relationships to one another... so you can throw in the naive everyman farm boy protagonist that everyone can get behind. Then the wise paragon mentor (Obi-Wan / Yoda), the thief with a heart of gold (Han) the bumbling comic relief (C-3PO), the damsel in distress (Leia), and the antagonist with an unthinkable relationship to the protagonist. It all worked like a well oiled machine - given it's all rooted in the tried and tested hero's journey and well established character archetypes - and so any subsequent productions will inevitably have to attempt to be different to avoid criticism, and be worse for it. |
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Post by clemfandango on Aug 22, 2024 11:19:49 GMT
I blame The last Jedi for all this…
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Post by drhickman1983 on Aug 22, 2024 11:36:34 GMT
The last jedi was the only film in the sequels that wasn't entirely creatively bankrupt. Though I liked them all more than the sequels (which is a low bar)
It's not a good film but at least it tried to offer something different.
I like the Mandalorian and Andor. Boba Fett was absolute shit and haven't watched the others.
Though frankly I'm not a huge SW fan anyway, don't even think the classic films are amazing (though Empire comes close)
There's an issue in general where nobody is willing to make low budget genre shows that can take the time to find their feet.
Equally because everything costs so much everyone is very rush averse so things can often be a bit bland.
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Post by darkling on Aug 22, 2024 13:16:25 GMT
Exactly. People point to making Luke a bitter, twisted old hermit as the Last Jedi's downfall, yet that was the most interesting thing about it.
It wasn't handled particularly well, and the story surrounding it was nonsensical, but it was a solid foundation for an interesting story, and a redemption arc for Luke.
They should have just turned Luke into a Mr. Miyagi type character, with Rey as "Daniel LaRusso".
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Post by zisssou on Aug 22, 2024 13:38:02 GMT
Same old shit innit. Got to pander to the franchise fanbase. Undo it. Make it more Star Wars.
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JonFE
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Post by JonFE on Aug 22, 2024 14:04:18 GMT
Am I wrong thinking Knights of the Old Republic is considered to be good SW lore? Maybe Disney could look in the past to pave the future. |
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Post by Bill in the rain on Aug 22, 2024 14:13:27 GMT
So basically star wars fans are horrible miserable people who hate everything and complain loudly about everything, and non-star wars fans don't really care about star wars, and even if they were interested they'd be put off by the moaning toxic fans who seemingly are most happy when star wars fails.
At this point I think I'm more put off star wars by the fandom than the content. Most of the content has been at least average (other than Boba Fett and Rise of Skywalker), but everything surrounding it is a clusterfuck. Plus I've now learned to never click on any youtube video about Star Wars because it'll fill my homepage with angry alt-right junk.
If I'd known The Acolyte was by one of the Russian Doll creators I might have checked it out.
But imho the problem is trying to base a platform around one or two franchises. Disney+ being so heavily based around Star Wars and Marvel means they have to pump out a lot of content in each universe, which just gets overwhelming and feels hard to keep up with.
It wouldn't work for any other channel or franchise either.
The only way to keep it fresh creatively is to bring in new ideas and voices, and shake things up, but the only people who can keep up with it are the superfans who hate it when you do that. And even if you somehow manage to keep up the output quality and variety, it's hard for most viewers to keep up and they're going to feel like they've fallen behind so why bother.
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