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Post by bichii2 on Jan 10, 2024 23:08:01 GMT
I really need to replay this. I loved it. So much fun..all the great combat of a nioh mixed with a sekiro with much less anger.
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Post by JuniorFE on Jan 10, 2024 23:31:47 GMT
I gotta be honest, having now also played the Niohs and the DLCs in all three, I still think Wo Long falls a bit short (even aside from frustrations with that one DLC boss)...
To their credit, the parry system is really nice, a less frustrating Sekiro as Bichii said just above (although putting it on the same button as the dodge is still a bit questionable IMO), and they did add quite a bit of QoL and nice mechanics in the DLCs, especially regarding Martial Arts... But there's still a few issues that don't really make sense when you remember it was released after both Niohs + DLCs.
The spell system is still mostly forgettable aside from like two spells per element and maybe a couple Metal debuffs (and even if the boss-drop spells are better, their drop rates and stat requirements go too far so I can't really confirm or deny that)
The basic weapon combos could still use a bit more variety that stayed locked to Martial Arts in the end
Consumables are also not nearly as interesting as they were in other games in the genre (not just Nioh in this case)
The loot system ended up being this weird hybrid of Souls and Nioh and it feels like it took the parts that were fine on their own but create issues together (for example, when combining Graces/set bonuses with the loot drop frequency of a Soulslike, all that does is make it harder for you to find what you want)
Then there's some more subjective stuff like the music, the endgame gameplay loop and such, but that's more down to personal preference than what I'd call a straight up issue.
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Post by JuniorFE on Jan 10, 2024 23:33:09 GMT
Don't get me wrong, it's still a great game! Final DLC boss moaning aside I think I'd rate it very close to Nioh 1 at the end of the day, if not equal. I just don't think it's their best.
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Post by bichii2 on Jan 10, 2024 23:43:22 GMT
Sekiro, BB and wo long for the most part get rid of the fluff. Just f'ing amazing games with amazing combat and boss fights. Wo long is not on the level of sekiro or BB but it has that lovely trait of binning most of the bs fat.
In elden ring, all dark souls games, nioh etc I use about 1% of the items and loot. It's all just noise that gets in the way.
Sekiro is just my katana and the enemies who will die. (with a sprinkle of my prosthetic arm abilities). I don't want all that loot or potion making or buffs and debuffs.
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Ulythium
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Post by Ulythium on Jan 10, 2024 23:55:27 GMT
I'm really enjoying Wo Long, but for me there's still too much "fluff" - the randomised loot, the weapon and armour upgrade system, the Five Phases level-ups, spells, martial arts, consumables, and so on.
It's pared back compared to Nioh, and even more so compared to Nioh 2... but then again, most games are!
If Sekiro was 'FromSoft does a character action game', Wo Long is much more of an RPG as far as I'm concerned.
Don't get me wrong: I like RPGs a lot, but one can have too much of a good thing in that regard (in my opinion, of course).
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Ulythium
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Post by Ulythium on Jan 10, 2024 23:57:42 GMT
Anyway, I beat the Personification of Douchebaggery (or whatever that asshole's name was).
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Post by JuniorFE on Jan 11, 2024 0:25:34 GMT
I feel like they could have gone either way with some systems (closer to Nioh or closer to Souls/Sekiro) and I'd have been fine with it either way tbh. The spell system, either trim out some of the fluff or make more spells useful. The loot, either make most equipment unique like in Souls (presumably the equipment passives would then be managed some other way instead of having to salvage passives from your drops, maybe like Bloodborne's runes?) or keep closer to Nioh... and so on.
As it is, it's a sort of hybrid of Souls and Nioh in a lot of its systems that, again, works well IMO, and I'm extremely ready for a potential Wo Long 2 and the upcoming Rise of the Ronin... but it could be better and, judging from how little it's being talked about nowadays relative to, say, Elden Ring or the Niohs, it unfortunately didn't really manage to grab either of the audiences it was (presumably) going for as much as those games did...
Even going by something like the care put into the various (community-made so it could be a good reflection of players' opinion) wikis, or achievement metrics, the quality of its wiki is much closer to Nioh 1 than 2 or Elden Ring, with the documentation for the DLC especially dropping off a cliff even harder than Nioh 1... And the DLC achievements as I got them, even for things like beating simple storyline bosses? Distressingly often, they don't even break into 1% ownership, it was like 0.5%, 0.2%, pretty sure a couple even went below 0.1... Maybe some of that was because of Xbox vs PS, but it's pretty clear that it just didn't make as much of an impact, and it's a shame.
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Ulythium
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Post by Ulythium on Jan 11, 2024 20:20:06 GMT
Fittingly enough, the Mezuki boss fight was the hardest thing in the game for me. |
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Post by JuniorFE on Jan 11, 2024 21:55:50 GMT
Fittingly enough, the Mezuki boss fight was the hardest thing in the game for me. If this means you've beaten the final boss, congrats! That's 3/4 on the Team Ninja offers now (although I'm not sure how much interest you have in Stranger of Paradise, if any) Re: your spoiler, yeah, that was meant to be an intentionally difficult crossover mission, in the vein of the online missions in the Niohs. Haven't done it myself either... |
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Post by Ulythium on Jan 11, 2024 22:57:14 GMT
Thanks, JuniorFE! Yes, I've done all the main battlefields; I also did all the sub-battlefields (except for Crouching Dragons' Battle Royale, which really doesn't sound like my cup of coffee). As for Stranger of Paradise... I don't know. As I said in my 'review' of Wo Long, I'm torn - 50% morbidly curious, given how dire it's meant to be in every respect save for gameplay, and 50% genuinely interested if the combat holds up. Have you played it? |
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Post by JuniorFE on Jan 11, 2024 22:59:19 GMT
Thanks, JuniorFE! Yes, I've done all the main battlefields; I also did all the sub-battlefields (except for Crouching Dragons' Battle Royale, which really doesn't sound like my cup of coffee). As for Stranger of Paradise... I don't know. As I said in my 'review' of Wo Long, I'm torn - 50% morbidly curious, given how dire it's meant to be in every respect save for gameplay, and 50% genuinely interested if the combat holds up. Have you played it? Not yet. I do want to at least try it as I've heard good things about the gameplay if not so much the story... And if you don't have any attachment to the very first Final Fantasy and its greater mythos it'll probably make even less sense 😅 If nothing else, you can find it pretty cheap nowadays AFAIK. |
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Post by Ulythium on Jan 11, 2024 23:10:59 GMT
Not yet. I do want to at least try it as I've heard good things about the gameplay if not so much the story... And if you don't have any attachment to the very first Final Fantasy and its greater mythos it'll probably make even less sense 😅 If nothing else, you can find it pretty cheap nowadays AFAIK.
I don't have any attachment to Final Fantasy games in general, never having played one!
If I were to check out the series in question, I sort of feel as though my first foray shouldn't involve a title that makes fans of the franchise shudder from head to toe, but... maybe?
It's only about £15 nowadays.
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Post by Danno on Jan 11, 2024 23:19:49 GMT
Did this get a physical release?
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Ulythium
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Post by Ulythium on Jan 11, 2024 23:22:52 GMT
Wo Long? Yup - just over £20 at The Game Collection, too:
Stranger of Paradise? Also yup, although this one's only £15:
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Post by wunty on Jul 23, 2024 8:48:47 GMT
Finally got around to getting stuck into the DLCs. I'm enjoying them but I think it's because I had a big break, so the gameplay feels fresh and fun again. The first DLC was a bit disappointing - short dull levels and meh bos fights - but now on to the second battlefield in the second DLC and enjoying it more. As usual I'm skipping the cutscenes and ignoring the loot, but the simplistic combat is so responsive and fun. I love how defelcting is tied to dodge. you could arguye that makes it too easy which I suppose is true but, as stated before, it's just fun.
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Aunty Treats
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Post by Aunty Treats on Jul 23, 2024 9:02:41 GMT
I was thinking about getting this but you just made it sound a bit crap, wunty
How does it compare to LotF and LoP? Would you say it's more worth playing than Armoured Core 6, if you had to pick one?
Really enjoyed Nioh but didn't get far with the sequel as it felt like more of the same plus additional mechanics layered on top that I wasn't that fond of. Wo Long was quite appealing though as I was never interested in the samurai/feudal Japan stuff and this seems a bit different (set in China, I believe) with Nioh combat and a bit of Sekiro
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Post by rhaegyr on Jul 23, 2024 9:05:16 GMT
Combat is as great as ever but everything else felt a little Nioh-lite.
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Post by wunty on Jul 23, 2024 9:18:20 GMT
I was thinking about getting this but you just made it sound a bit crap, wunty How does it compare to LotF and LoP? Would you say it's more worth playing than Armoured Core 6, if you had to pick one? Really enjoyed Nioh but didn't get far with the sequel as it felt like more of the same plus additional mechanics layered on top that I wasn't that fond of. Wo Long was quite appealing though as I was never interested in the samurai/feudal Japan stuff and this seems a bit different (set in China, I believe) with Nioh combat and a bit of Sekiro I bounced right off AC6 to be honest. Love LotF. Liked but didn't love LoP.
Nioh 2 is my favourite Team ninja game. This isn't as good. It's hard to say why without making it sound crap. There's lots of things in it that ARE a bit crap. The gameplay itself is the real star though, as it just feels so good to play. It's less finicky than the Nioh games but has the same shitey loot system. There's no stances and only one main attack button (there is a second attack button but it's more situational). Like Nioh, there are spells and every weapon has it's own combat arts. There's also, like Nioh, a spirit animal and gauge that fills up for special attacks etc.
But - and I can't stress this enough - it's really good fun to play. The deflection system works differently to Sekiro, yet similar in some aspects, and the gameplay is based around that.
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Aunty Treats
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Post by Aunty Treats on Jul 23, 2024 9:31:10 GMT
Yeah, I'm not too sure about AC6 either- it looks a bit charmless in videos but reviews all seem to be really positive
Is Wo Long challenging? Not that bothered by the lack of stances. There's still weapon/build variety and dressing up, yeah?
Are LotF, LoP and Wo Long the best of the rest in terms of recent Souls games? Anything else worth a look? I've got some credit and there's a sale on
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Post by wunty on Jul 23, 2024 9:50:42 GMT
Yeah, I'm not too sure about AC6 either- it looks a bit charmless in videos but reviews all seem to be really positive Is Wo Long challenging? Not that bothered by the lack of stances. There's still weapon/build variety and dressing up, yeah? Are LotF, LoP and Wo Long the best of the rest in terms of recent Souls games? Anything else worth a look? I've got some credit and there's a sale on Oh there's dressing up but I'm not convinced about build variety. There is weapon variety though.
Yeah... I think so. There have been others out recently I think but I've not bothered with them as I was getting a bit burned out. Remnant 2 is sort of souls-like and it's cool but it didn't grab me and I binned it off. LotF for me has been the best Souls-like in ages but as usual that's an opinion not shared by many. I absolutely love it though.
AC6 I really tried to love but nope. Nope nope nope. Not my bag at all.
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Aunty Treats
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Post by Aunty Treats on Jul 23, 2024 10:23:34 GMT
LotF is great. The tone and atmosphere are brilliant. Enemies flagellating themselves while idle and falling to their knees raising their arms waiting to be killed as you approach. It's stuff like that that gives a game personality. Even the good guys are mental
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Post by JonFE on Jul 23, 2024 10:32:12 GMT
Aunty Treats I think a lot of wunty's disappointment on Wo Long (if you can call it that) comes from the fact it's not Nioh 3. If you are not hard for Nioh, you'd be more forgiving. For me personally, it was a good, even great game, one that I liked enough to finish both the main game and side missions plus the three DLC's (minus the final DLC boss who is pure bullshit). It does have great combat, imaginative bosses, but shitty level design selected from a map with no world connectivity. I'd say, if you find it in a sale or on gamepass, give it a chance, before Armoured Core, which is a totally different beast.
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Aunty Treats
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Post by Aunty Treats on Jul 23, 2024 10:49:22 GMT
It does have great combat, imaginative bosses, but shitty level design selected from a map with no world connectivity. Like Nioh then?
I'm quite happy with linearity and discrete levels. I think I'll grab it. Cheers all |
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Post by JonFE on Jul 23, 2024 10:58:14 GMT
It is like Nioh in world map and mission design, yes To sum my opinion up, Wo Long along with Lies of P and Lords of the Fallen are the only non-From soulslike games I liked from start to finish  |
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Post by wunty on Jul 23, 2024 11:06:52 GMT
It does have great combat, imaginative bosses, but shitty level design selected from a map with no world connectivity. Like Nioh then?
I'm quite happy with linearity and discrete levels. I think I'll grab it. Cheers all I genuinely think it's worth getting. Despite all the things I don't like about it... I really fucking love playing it. |
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Post by wunty on Jul 23, 2024 11:07:06 GMT
The flag and morale system is also pretty cool.
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Post by wunty on Jul 23, 2024 11:08:50 GMT
Aunty Treats I think a lot of wunty's disappointment on Wo Long (if you can call it that) comes from the fact it's not Nioh 3. If you are not hard for Nioh, you'd be more forgiving. That's pretty much it really. I loved Nioh 2 so much I was always bound to be a bit let down with Wo Long. It's the Yokai more than anything. I love me some Yokai. The demons in Wo Long don't stack up (but at least they are there). |
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Post by FlexibleFeline on Jul 23, 2024 11:51:42 GMT
Yeah, it's a shadow of Nioh 2 but you are talking about one of the greats there. I really, really enjoyed it.
Lu Bu aside. Fuck that guy.
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Post by JuniorFE on Jul 23, 2024 12:06:28 GMT
Yeah, it's a shadow of Nioh 2 but you are talking about one of the greats there. I really, really enjoyed it. Lu Bu aside. Fuck that guy. Funny, I thought Lu Bu was one of the best because it was a straight skill test (even if you take the "cheese" option you still have to find the openings to use it, learn and block his strings etc), zero bullshit or gimmicks while still being as badass as both history and other media show him to be! It's why I liked the sort-of rehash (more or less historically accurate, to boot!) of his fight in the DLC too |
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Post by wunty on Jul 23, 2024 12:08:32 GMT
Lu Bu is essentially teaching you to learn the moves and time your deflects. I ended up finding him really good fun.
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